this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2024
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Of course, I'd do all the obvious things, such as getting a bigger house, a newer car, and quitting work, but beyond that, I have no interest in an extravagant lifestyle—or at least that's what I tell myself.

By a bigger house, I mean one typical of upper-middle-class living. I've watched plenty of videos of people touring million-dollar mansions, and they all look too big, open, and sterile to me. I've seen cozier tiny homes than those. And by a newer car, I mean a 2017 model or so instead of the 2007 one I drive now.

Really, give me a nice cottage by the lake with some land and a big garage for all my tools and toys, and I'm all set. I much prefer the idea of "hidden wealth" over showing it off. I'm just kind of worried that I wouldn't be able to live up to my own expectations if push comes to shove, and there's really no way of testing that. Am I just kidding myself here?

I feel the same way about fame. Many people aspire to become successful YouTubers or such, but the idea of people recognizing me on the street sounds awful.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I don't think you're kidding yourself, i think you're just capable of introspection and critical thought.

I frankly consider the excessive spending and flaunting of wealth that many people do to be a sign of pretty profound unhappiness, they're just trying to desperately fill a void inside them and distracting themselves with constant consumption.

No, looking at the world and at history we can see what actually makes people happy, and those things are quite simple: having a social group, being in nice places, and having hobbies. Of course there are other things too but these are the basic pillars.

Personally if i got a shitload of money i'd invest it in founding organizations to improve the world and funding existing efforts to do the same, because it's very clear that i personally benefit from everyone else having good lives. I want everyone to be so well off that you can drop me naked in any random place and i never ever have to worry about anything, i can 100% rely on people just giving me clothes and food and being able to travel for free, THAT is the ultimate freedom.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I would only live differently in that I would actually be able to do everything I want to do instead of doing nothing because I can't afford to do anything. Better home, better car, better gaming setup and I'd actually leave the house once in a while for more than just work and getting consumable goods like food, TP, soap, etc. And there isn't a lot I want to go out for. Bowling, pool, going up to Yosemite or down to Santa Cruz (gas is insane).

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

I have similar wants. Just a standard house, maybe some land for a bit of gardening, and a workshop to make things. Donate to certain charities and open source projects etc. Travel a bit.

But they're one little thing I'd do that would definitely show I'm rich:

I'd travel to local forest parks around the world, and bury actual treasure. Like a 3 gold bars. In in actual chest too. Maybe every now and then I'd do smaller treasures that are like a fancy sword or platinum ring or just medieval armor. Idk.

Then I'd go to the local university and set up riddles they'll lead to a part of a hidden map, with the map being hidden both throughout the university and maybe online too, depending.

But it wouldn't be a straightforward map. It would be a map to a random house built near the park. And somewhere in that house, would be the final map leading to the treasure.

Why? Because the world could use a little bit of magic adventuring I think. That's something that just doesn't really exist anymore in the modern era, in a way. I feel like finding treasure and going on a treasure hunt is something a lot of people as a kid probably thought would be fun.

And second, university students can always use some money, so they get first dibs too.

Likewise when I die any children I have would have to go to a mini mansion and solve the puzzles in order to get my last will that grants the finder my money.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

So, we have a reasonable house but one that still needs a lot of work. I had a dream that someone offered us a million dollars for it in a forced sale because there were apartments to be built on our block, and I realized that wouldn't be enough. I wouldn't move out of our house for a million dollars. I want to live here.

If we got stupid money, I'd do all the stuff to the house that we want to do. I think we'd travel more too.

Having been both so poor I was homeless and now firmly middle class and everything in between - there is lifestyle creep with more money. We have done some of the stuff to the house that it needs, we host family holidays and parties, it costs money; we have two cars, not one, pets, occasional trips to the beach with a hotel stay instead of just for the day.

But the curve of this lifestyle inflation flattens as we approach our ideal, if that makes sense. There is a point where more just isn't better. We are so close to it now.

So if the money was infinite, but couldn't be distributed to others as charity, I think we would retire, travel, improve the house, get new cars (well, husband would, I love my car). Not move, not live super large, not eat much differently.

Either that, or I would open a little bar in my neighborhood, give up the dream of leisure and make it a wonderful, welcoming place with great drinks and food, start a business as my kids all are almost grown. That's more likely, I am not so good at slowing down.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm going to assume this isn't "lottery" ultra-wealthy where you can spend it all and suddenly be back to destitute. So you say you wouldn't live that differently, and immediately begin with "quitting work." That's the first step, because being wildly wealthy does change you incrementally because in this situation you've just bought yourself a commodity that once spent can't be bought back, time.

You now have 40 hours a week that you were giving to someone else. Add on 5-10 hours for commute time (.5 to hour commute) that can get up to 50 hours for whatever the hell you want to do.

Buying a new car just a quick glance at Carmax and you're looking at around $13,000 for a standard sedan. Not many have that pocket change going around, much less to buy the house that at low end houses cost $100,000 so you're done, no worries, no muss, no fuss and you didn't give some company your money in interest because you bought for cash. And on buying houses, as competitive as the market is, buying with cash right now at least in my region is about the only way to do it.

So lets assume you're working from home right now, you gained back 40 hours. Hey, I want to have a party/trip/etc! Well, your buddies are all working, possibly can't afford to go on trip, night out to eat. Offer to pay, but it's still the getting the time off. They've got bills to worry about, the ones you're not even thinking about. Sometimes they'll show up, other times, not so much. So either you're out fishing and working on your hobbies during that 40, or working to a new project job wise which really by this point is how the wealthy keep getting more and more money because build up a new thing, hire someone else to run it, passive income. But you don't have your friends to hang out with, travel and the like, you'll run into the others that don't have those concerns because you can buy your way around inconveniences (airport seats are uncomfortable, but those lounges are nice. Why have to take connecting flights? etc) those are also going to be the ultra wealthy. And they have a standard of living that will look more and more "normal" to you. Little bit of peer pressure, little bit of "take a ride in my Lambo" and finding it fun, it's a frog in the pot situation, you'll go back to your roots and go "How did I live like this?"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

So just don't have any friends or desire to travel. Done.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Well I know someone who regularly fantasizes about winning the lottery and the world of possibilities that would open up for them.

I'm sure more money could help with a lot of the stuff that life throws at you. But honestly, when I think about the things that I really want or would like to do... then it's rarely about money. For example, you want to become a photographer. It's not being unable to buy the priciest camera on the market that's holding you back. I even doubt if it's easier if you have the money to do just that.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You are suddenly super rich. Now all your friends and family expect you to provide for them. Every kindness they offer is suspect, are they doing it because they like you or because they want your money? How can you really know?

You don’t have to work and can go anywhere in the world. But your friends still have jobs, so you travel alone.

Some of your friends start to resent your new lifestyle. Others may just be staying quiet. You read about “crabs in a bucket” and distance yourself more from them.

It’s really isolating, but you meet some other wealthy people and you know they don’t need your money. And… you actually have some stuff in common with them. Yes Ibiza is overrated, but they suggest another place to check out. You go out with them to amazing restaurants that your old friends wouldn’t even appreciate. You can commiserate about how hard it is to get good help these days.

On top of all that, you slowly start to notice an emptiness inside. You should be happy! You don’t have to work anymore! You have everything you could ever want! Why do you feel this way!?!? Drugs and expensive purchases fill the need momentarily. If try telling your old friends that you’re not all that fulfilled, they’ll pull out the world’s tiniest violin for you. You lack purpose and goals, and feel like you are drifting in a life of luxury completely devoid of meaning.

If you’re lucky you find a way to have a new purpose in life and accept that the money changed you. If not you spiral and, best case scenario, wind up broke.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Don't have to worry about your friend's motives if you honestly want to help them.

Travel a little bit. Spend most of your time at home, either enjoying the simple pleasures, or with friends and family.

So what if they are taking advantage of you? You are rich! What's the downside?

Sure, you have to be vigilant against con artists, grifters, and addicts. You have to draw a line somewhere. Maybe don't fund their casino trips, drug trips, or Candy Crush high score.

Extravagant birthday gifts? College tuition for your niblings? Why not?

If someone is lying to you, you will find out eventually. I'd rather have friends now and let future me deal with the fallout from the grifters.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The "why not" is that some people actually are harmed not helped by being handed stuff. I tried to help one of my friends who lived with me rent free for a year and by the end he was completely unmotivated to actually get or keep a job, contribute around the house, or even behave pleasantly towards anyone in the house. It happened gradually over time til living with him became intolerable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Then you have a hard conversation.

I've been that person. I lived with my grandparents for a year. Rent free, nearly no job. My aunt and uncle sat me down and explained that they appreciated my work helping to care for my grandparents, but if I stayed with them I would only be qualified for a career as a home health aid.

I talked to my extended family and moved out. Other arrangements were made for my grandparents. I found a job and started a new career. It's certainly possible to enable bad behavior, but it's also possible to help someone that needs it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Good on you for being receptive to their conversation and actually making improvements and changes. Not everyone behaves that way, some people like my friend just become dependent on the help instead. It's important to recognize that external help isn't always the solution; that shouldn't stop us from trying to help initially but it's important to withdraw it if it's causing dependency.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

That's completely reasonable.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

One of those guides to “what to do if you win the lottery” says to, up front, decide how much and who you want to fund. Want to buy all your friends and family houses and college tuition? Sure.

But the thing is that money can make people go crazy. Some people will always want more. Sure you got them a house, but you’re rich, why can’t you get them a car too? And now they’re a little behind on bills, surely you can help them out, right? And it never stops. Not everyone, but someone.

You might be interested in this podcast episode that touches on the subject: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/between-two-worlds/

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

That's tragic when it happens. I know that it will happen. Free lunches attract flies.

That doesn't mean you can't help people. It means you cut them off when it's clear they are being hurt and not helped.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Dunno bud, I've met and heard about a lot of rich people in my life (my partner builds high-end houses), and they've all been absolute assholes, though some more overly than others. I know exactly 2 nice rich people out of dozens.

My theory is two-fold: one, to get rich you probably screwed somebody else over, and two, once you get rich you feel an inherent need to protect your resources without ever actually feeling satisfied (gated communities, voting for your own self-interest, suspicion towards normal people).

I do think that having large sums of money almost always lead toward personal corruption, and I wish we all just had enough resources and societal support to be healthy and happy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I'm not disagreeing with you, except that we should remember that a lot of rich people inherited their wealth. So it's not that they directly screwed over other people, but maybe that their parents or grandparents did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

normal people

Who are these non-weirdos of which you speak?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Like, the people who work to redo the high-end kitchens every couple of years, maintain the gardens, nanny the kids, and clean the toilets. Those normal people. Rich people are terrified of them.

Edit: "terrified" isn't quite the right word. There's definitely fear involved though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

You actually won't become wealthy.

The people who weren't born destined for it are the only ones that sit around imagining what it would be like...

I'm just a "temporarily embarrassed millionaire!"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

It's all a hypothetical, feel free to just decide you are that type of person. No harm in it.

In real life though, if money is no object, the difference between a 2017 normal car and a 2025 luxury car is literally just "do you want extra features and a bigger screen on a car that will last longer?" It just doesn't make sense to get the cheaper version, unless you are giving up something else because you only have a limited amount of money.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I know a guy who's worth over 10 and probably closer to $50 million. He still lives in the same house that he did when he graduated university. He drives a 10-year-old car and his son who is one of my best friends drives the car that he had before that as a handme down.

Some people flaunt it. Some people build it quietly.

This gentleman that I know has bought both of his son's houses cash so they have no mortgages. He owns a million dollar cottage on a beautiful Lake and another property on the panhandle in Florida. You would think that he's on social security though if you just saw him bumbling about his yard.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 3 months ago (1 children)

People don't really comprehend what being wealthy is like. We imagine the high-rollers table in Vegas, or sailing a yacht in some Caribbean paradise.

Usually it just means being able to fix your car when it needs repairs. It means taking a vacation and splurging on dinner out without going into a lot of debt. It means hiring landscapers and house cleaners to do the upkeep that two-income families don't have time to do. It means having kids without going completely bankrupt.

It's actually kind of sad that these things are not possible anymore if you aren't rich.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's not wealthy though. That's maybe well to do or upper middle class.

Wealthy is your children not having a mortgage and also having a trust fund.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You might want to sit down, because you're not going to believe what you have to earn to live the life I described. We're talking top 2% of families.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm happy to admit that I live the life that you described. For the most part. Big house and a desirable neighborhood. Couple of six-figure jobs. Couple of nice cars, at least one warm vacation every year and another one to visit family. Kids educations will be fully funded by the time they're 18. Registered savings accounts are nearly maxed out and will be by the end of this year. The house I grew up in was a single parent home that went through bankruptcy when I was a young teenager, so I'm quite familiar with the other end of the spectrum and I'm putting plans in place to avoid ever ending up there.... While still not thinking twice about picking up $1,000 dinner, tap while out with friends for a celebration. Balance as possible if you're willing to sacrifice some of the shiny things that people seem to want these days.

I'm grateful for our fortunate position. When I look around I see people living lives quite a bit more extravagant than ours and I don't quite understand it, but I'm more focused on building my family's future. So I keep the blinders on and keep doing what seems to be working for us. I'd suggest more people do the same and that would involve spending less time on sites like this.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You should still recognize that you are in the top 2%, and are wealthy. Poorer people look at what other people are spending money on because it's unfair that so many people can't afford the basics. You have to look around to understand the situation. You sound like you don't other people looking at you... trying to downplay your weath as "well-to-do" or "upper middle class", which we all know are euphemisms. It's ridiculous that you would think of yourself as not wealthy, but also not think twice about a $1000 tab.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Nah man, redefining things doesn't work at all. I'm not wealthy. I'm pretty firmly middle class based on just about every definition of middle class that's available to any sociologist on this planet. People ignorantly seem to think that middle class is tied to your salary or household income which is not the case.

I've got no problem with people seeing me living the life that I live. I grew up in a twice broken bankrupted household and I'm pretty damn proud of what my partner and I have been able to achieve. I live a pretty comfortable middle-class life and I try to help uplift the people around me so they can do the same.

I look around me and I see people struggling to achieve the middle class lifestyle that I'm grateful that I have but the fact that parts of society are falling behind doesn't by default make me wealthy. If I were wealthy I wouldn't have a mortgage or a host of other things that are currently saddling me financially. The people who can be categorized as wealthy are those who don't need to work for a living and whose capital sustains them.

You might not agree with me but that doesn't change. The facts are reality surrounding our individual financial situations.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You are literally amongst the wealthiest people and are trying to create your own categories. Not working on me, and you barely seem like you're convincing yourself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If I were wealthy I sincerely doubt I'd be driving my broken down Ford but you tell yourself whatever you gotta to alleviate your feelings of failure.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You're telling on yourself here ... you think wealth is associated with success. I think success is when a society has taken care of everyone. You think I am just critical because I am jealous? I don't want your lifestyle, I want for everyone to have what they need and not live in excess like you do. I am critical because you downplay your privilege and then look down on others. Conservative, bootstraps way of thinking. You are benefiting from a system that requires impoverishment of other people, and you aren't even willing to name your place in that system.

If your lifestyle is as you claim, then driving a broken down Ford sounds like a choice whereas for others, it would not be. If I were seriously concerned about my broken down car, I would not pick up thousand dollar tabs. And earlier you tried to gloat about having a couple of nice cars, going on vacation, living in a big house? One moment you're bragging about your wealth, the next you are downplaying it. Dumbass. You are avoiding critical thinking because you know it makes you look bad.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm not telling on anything by being honest with you. I can't afford a new car right now. In 2 or 3 years. I'll have saved up enough to be able to afford one, but right now it's simply not in my budget. I also can't afford the kitchen renovation that I have planned. Can't afford a lot of things that you seem to think the wealthy people can.

I can't afford them because I'm a pretty firmly middle class household that can afford some of the nice things in life but not without working for them. Like the wealthy are able to. At no point am I downplaying my privilege. I've said a number of times even in these posts how fortunate that I am. That you think admitting to going on a vacation is gloating just reinforces your jealousy. We budget to be able to take a vacation. I read the other week that over 30% of Americans take multiple vacations per year. By you're jealous framework, you're claiming that they're all wealthy, which is obviously an absurd thing to say or position to take. I'd chalk much of my fortune up to the fact that I'm not a moron with my money running around charging my life on a credit card, like the vast majority of people that you see around you today. I'm not benefiting from the exploitation of others any more than the manager at a McDonald's is. I get paid for the work that I put out. I don't get paid for other people's work and I don't get paid from real estate holdings or investments or any of the other wealth creating vehicles that the wealthy in our society utilize, if I had the ability to I certainly would but seeing as a middle class those avenues to earn are not available to me.

You're accusing me of lacking critical thinking when you apparently don't have the ability to think critically enough to budget your own life or to think critically enough to put yourself in a position where your paycheck will allow you to live the middle-class lifestyle that I happen to be able to live right now.

That you think my understanding my place in the social hierarchy is an attempt to make me look bad. Really demonstrates your lack of ability to think critically your poor emotional intelligence and your lack of overall social context...... Which probably at least in part explains why you're jealous of someone who's living a middle-class lifestyle and probably why you'll live in poverty for the rest of your sad life. Crabs in a bucket.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You are the one listing off all the ways you are well off ... and then calling me jealous. It's kind of an embarrassing thing for you resort to but I think that's what you need to feel good about yourself. Literally the classic last resort is to call people jealous haters 😂

You are making assumptions about my ability to budget? You are saying I'll live in poverty? How about instead of trying to impress people online about your money, and trying to convince a leftist that you're a good guy, why don't you learn about solidarity. You're now talking about how you think you know your place in the social hierarchy? Like everything you say is just an admission of your allegiance to inequality.

I highly doubt that the work you do is worth the exponentially higher amount than other people, the amount that would be required for that to be your sole source of wealth. You have not taken any time to evaluate your actual place in the world, and who is suffering as a result of whatever your work is. So yeah you're dumb as hell and the only thing you have to say about it is "blah blah blah you poor jealous hater 😤"

Your lifestyle is a wealthy lifestyle. The "middle class" is something that only briefly existed in the 1950s, did not exist before that, and was quickly taken out. Look at actual numbers and not an outdated idealization.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Still rambling on with jealousy eh? I feel good about myself surrounded by my loving family and friends. I don't feel good about myself because I can afford a house and others can't.

You are jealousy is preventing you from accepting reality. It's also quite clearly what's holding you back.

You're so confused. You alternate between saying I'm trying to impress people and then I'm trying to deny it. I'm doing neither. I'm simply stating reality. A reality that you seem too dense to grasp and yes, you're absolutely impoverished and when I say that I'm not talking about your bank account, I'm talking about your mental abilities.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You keep bringing up jealousy 😂😂 you can't try to use that as an attack on me. You are the one who brought it up again and again. You literally brought it up again, and unironically called me jealous again.

And what is this assumption that I'm unhappy with my life lmao. I don't want two cars and a big house, I don't want anyone to have that. It's unsustainable. I've had wealthy people tell me they are jealous of my life because of my career ... I am not jealous of wealth I am angry at resource hoarding that prevents people from accessing basic amenities and people like you acting like they aren't participating in it or aren't even able to recognize their place in society as amongst the wealthiest.

You are trying to impress people, and simultaneously trying to downplay yourself as "upper middle class" instead of wealthy. You are in the top percent of income earners, and somehow think that you are not wealthy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I keep bringing up jealousy because it's so evident how pathetic your mindset is when it comes to other people.

You're a failure. Not everyone who isn't a failure is wealthy. Some of us are just normal people living normal lives. A normal middle class life is exactly what I'm fortunate enough to be living.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

You are just lying about your class status, you already admitted to living a lifestyle that matches with the upper percent of people.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 months ago

I feel like the wealthy people you see are the ones who either get excitement from flaunting it or from lying about it (for example, mtv cribs was all fake). There are plenty of stories (yes i know they're just stories) about multi millionaires who drive the same old truck, wear regular blue jeans, and have a nice quiet (albeit larger than average) home.

It's not crazy at all. I just think we see the outliers more frequently than not because they want us to see them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

I remember having a guy living near me who made quite a fair bit of money, but since he was Christian he donated most of it to charity and just lived a normal middle class life lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I guess this is essentially a philosophical question. Kind of like "would you defend your country?"

You can say you would but how could you ever really know unless the situation actually arises? Perhaps it's just my ego trying to convince I'm notably different from others.

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