this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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MODERATORS
 

Earlier, after review, we blocked and removed several communities that were providing assistance to access copyrighted/pirated material, which is currently not allowed per Rule #1 of our Code of Conduct. The communities that were removed due to this decision were:

We took this action to protect lemmy.world, lemmy.world's users, and lemmy.world staff as the material posted in those communities could be problematic for us, because of potential legal issues around copyrighted material and services that provide access to or assistance in obtaining it.

This decision is about liability and does not mean we are otherwise hostile to any of these communities or their users. As the Lemmyverse grows and instances get big, precautions may happen. We will keep monitoring the situation closely, and if in the future we deem it safe, we would gladly reallow these communities.

The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)

Uh, @[email protected] .. what's up with the banning going on in this thread? I noticed on a.lemmy.org that someone was labeled "banned" and their comment was simply "Ight, Iโ€™m out"

The mod note was "Let us help you".

There are more similarly weak (spiteful?) bans that certainly don't seem to be at a standard for a ban. "Litterally 1984" was another one. Is that all it takes to be banned here?

Edit: Many (all?) the users I referenced as banned are now unbanned from the site, but now banned from this community.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The "ight I'm out" ban note was.... hm. Not a great look. Comes across as petty and vindictive.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)

There are worse, imo.

user @snake posted:

Did you ever consider ceding ownership of the instance to an entity with greater legal capabilities?

In the end, it will not make sense to try to keep this instance running if the owners are unable to provide adequate service to its users.

and was banned for:

reason: Go get your service somewhere else

Definitely not a great look.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

You're not allowed to discuss piracy. You wouldn't talk about stealing a car would you?

Delete this.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (5 children)
[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Between Beehaw and LemmyWorld, I'm on my third account at this point. What starts as an alt quickly becomes the main under the right circumstances. ๐Ÿ˜‚

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Join smaller instances, they don't do that there

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (11 children)

These communities are not even hosted on lemmy.world, this is an absurdly overreacted response. There were no signs of any legal trouble and I can't understand how lemmy.world specifically would be the target of such legal action. If you want to host an instance, you should do everything in your power to allow discussions on any topic, while in necessary cases disallowing direct posting/linking of illegal content. Instead, you chose to block a community that has long been known to avoid having any trouble with the moderators.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Lemmy.world maintains a local copy of every external community. This is how federation works. Any piracy related posts on those subs will be copied in their entirety to lemmy.world servers, so lemmy.world could potentially be sued for hosting that content. Being the largest instance makes it a target.

It is rare to get advanced notice of legal problems. Usually the first you hear about it is a cease and desist, or a lawsuit. Lawsuits are costly to defend even if you're doing nothing wrong.

I don't like this decision. But it is a sensible one to protect the instance. If you care about piracy discussions you can visit those communities directly or on a different instance that made a different decision.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

There is no suing for that, talking about piracy is perfectly legal. That's called freedom of speech for your information

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (16 children)

The great thing is, now you're 100% empowered to move forward and host the responsibility yourself. Demanding volunteers shoulder potential liability (when you yourself admit you can't understand how there's any in the first place) is juvenile.

The moment a volunteer is hit with a DMCA notice or any threat of legal action, you think they have any interest in going through the court system? You can do it first.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (39 children)

Doesn't matter if they are hosted here or not. The way federation works is that threads on different instances are cached locally.

We have NO issues with the people at db0 - we are just looking out for ourselves in a 'better safe than sorry' fashion while we find out more. As mentioned in the OP we would like to unblock as soon as we know we can not get in any legal trouble.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

And on top of this, the removals were done following the request from a troll account, by a user involved in far more questionable discussions than the legal discussions currently going on in the now-removed communities. Should no attempt be made to differentiate between a legit legal concern and trolling?

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Good ol' Bungiefan_ak, creating troll accounts on any instance that'll have them to troll all things piracy and post transphobic and hateful shit wherever they go.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Please make announcements on lemmy instead of exclusively on discord moving forward. That is the biggest issue here, the lack of public transparency. Such a decision affects all instances, not just lemmy.world and making it publicly known is important

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

This was a misunderstanding from one of the team members. It has since been discussed and will not happen again. Lemmy.World and this announcement community is our primary platform,

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Thank you. It is appreciated.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Lovely this happened because someone complained after being banned from the piracy instance for being a transphobic asshole.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Not sure why people are downvoting you, since that's exactly what happened. It's Bungiefan_ak, a troll that admins are playing wackamole with, as the person keeps appearing on new instances and pulling the same shit.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Surely there is a discussion to be had around what is and isn't allowed, there are plenty of subreddits discussing piracy without dolirect links that are playing within the rules.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yeah I'm subbed to few piracy comms just because I like to see how that side of things is going. I've never seen anyone post or comment a link to a pirated file. I've never even seen anyone link to a website. It's all been news and discussions and that's it.

Actually, Reddit was far worse with huge ass lists of links to games and sites.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

Iโ€™ve never seen anyone post or comment a link to a pirated file. Iโ€™ve never even seen anyone link to a website.

You ignored the "assistance in obtaining it" part, because members of [email protected] have been doing that. Also:

EDIT: oh boy, shill posts a lie, innocent pirate mob upvotes. I literally post a proof that what he said is completely false, innocent pirate mob downvotes.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

Are you trying to say I'm a shill? Lol wat.
I chimed in with my experience. You chimed in with one example expecting it to be the end all of the discussion.

If you really want to talk about who does what, look at yourself asking for links to alternate apps for online services so you don't have to pay for them. Someone's been asking for assistance in obtaining things alright.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Sure. But we're a group of volunteers and we would not like to find out the hard way what is possible and what not. We would think meta discussions about piracy should be allowed as long as there is no linking to actual illegal content.
But is pointing to locations with illegal content legal or not? And having members/admins worldwide it makes it even harder to be sure.

We don't want to find out the hard way and this is a better safe than sorry measure. Again we personally have nothing against the people on these communities or against the communities itself.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Did you ever consider ceding ownership of the instance to an entity with greater legal capabilities?

In the end, it will not make sense to try to keep this instance running if the owners are unable to provide adequate service to its users.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yikes. Bit trigger happy with the ban hammer there. It's at -40, isn't that filtering enough?

Edit: it was an instance ban initially, this is more reasonable.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (5 children)

to an entity with greater legal capabilities?

Someone who has the necessary legal capabilities is going to be a corporation. And that's exactly why we left Reddit.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Reddit has the money for legal defense when companies try to go after redditors. The mods and administration for world are volunteers and don't have th resources to defend themselves. It's unfortunate but this move makes sense as part of the bigger picture.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (9 children)

Especially because discussing copies of your own data also happens in such communities. There must be clear guidelines what can and cannot be discussed. Also, it would have been nice to have those communities selfregulate. For example, giving them 30 days to comply, e.g. removing any content that breaks the law.

Because the fediverse i about democracy. If laws stand in the way of democracy since they have been brought up by governments influenced by global corporations (which are by definition autocratic) then they must be ignored.

So, striking a balance to not get anyone in trouble while not working for IP holders is the way.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Yes. The thing is there is zero content breaking the law, so they would have looked ridiculous

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