this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024

107 points (91.5% liked)

World News

38979 readers

2508 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

107

How an Israeli raid freed 4 hostages and killed scores of Palestinians in Gaza (apnews.com)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

56 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[+] [email protected] -12 points 5 months ago (5 children)

hamas should have just surrendered and none of these innocents have to die.

this is on hamas.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

It's this simple. If a single innocent child is between you and your military target, and you kill the child to get to the target, then you're a villain. Are you as much of a villain as the person you killed? Perhaps not. But are you a villain? Yes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

You are correct, everyone is a villain at that point. The problem with that, as horrible this is, is it incentivizes the action. For the same reason countries don't negotiate with terrorists. If you prove that committing terrorist acts, or taking hostages, or using children as human shields works, you positively reinforce those acts. Its fucked up beyond belief, and all alternatives need to be exhausted, but at some level someone takes the responsibility for where the lines are drawn for the least damage in the long run.

Is it actually preferable to just give money to anyone who hijacks a bus load of people, or a plane, or a bank, etc, so that no hostages are possibly injured when that happens? It might be, and could be argued for. Is such acts becoming more frequent or commonplace because it works an acceptable price weight against innocent human life? Again, it very well might be. It's only money. I am glad I am not the one making those decisions, but we can't pretend that the calculus doesn't happen and/or doesn't matter.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

nah,it's simpler, hamas shouldn't be using children as shield like a coward and take what's coming for them like the man they claimed they were.

villian i may be,coward i am not.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Let me quickly condemn Hamas before I step in to tell you that I’m so sick of reading „Hamas uses human shields“. The IDF is quite literally doing the same. Do you condemn the IDF?

That being said, it seems like an absolute waste of energy to use human shields against Israel, because they do not give a shit about civilians. They even shot their own hostages who were naked, unarmed, writing SOS and speaking Hebrew.

According to UN officials this could amount once again to war crimes. Do you think it’s Hamas‘ fault that Israel is committing war crimes? That Israel is committing genocide to name the crime of crimes?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago

i condemn the idf for killing innocents and their own hostage. there isn't any argument concerning the killing of innocents.

i do however hold hamas ultimately accountable for these atrocities if they hadn't started that shit on Oct 7th.

idf is responsible and accountable for sure but the situation today is still ultimately a response to hama's actions and they are ultimately responsible and accountable for the tragedies that's happening.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yea, bad guys shouldn't use civilians as human shields.

That doesn't give someone else the right to shoot the civilians to kill the bad guys.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

that's true and hamas doesn't give a shit is a child dies. they much prefer to kill the israelis and if the child dies along the way, it's justified.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Without a doubt. Israel shouldn't be killing innocent civilians just because the terrorists are hiding in an apartment building, you know?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

and terrorists like hamas shouldn't be hiding in civilian buildings if they are such holy warriors.

fuck these cowards using civilian as shields.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Yes, you're right. No one is saying they should. Lol.

The point, is that Israel is the 'good guys' and they shouldn't bomb innocent people just because they are being used by the bad guys.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They have been ready to give all the hostige back if Israel givs theres back and stops commuting genocide. But the declined over 10 times

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

lol,hamas condition for ceasefire basically is such that no sane person will ever agree to it.

besides,there isn't even a need for all these had hamas not decide to commit mass murders on Oct 7th.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This is on the IDF. No one is forcing them to attack so indiscriminately.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

hamas basically is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Talk about stating the obvious, , ,

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They want innocent people to die, it's how they get people on their side. They need it for propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Yes, Hamas is shitty and I've never seen a single person defend them.

Their actions do not ever justify the killing of innocent people and civilians. What's so nasty about this war is the massive numbers of innocent deaths.

In this operation they saved FOUR people at the literal cost of hundreds of innocent men, women, and children. How can anyone defend this? It's simply unconscionable.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I am still surprised by how people get (understandably) outraged at the IDF online but seem to forget that Hamas took those hostages in the first place. A lot of this bloodshed could be stopped right now if Hamas released them.

Sure, the Israeli government is fucking insane, but there are two sides fighting this war.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I don't see Hamas as a "side". I see them as evil fucking terrorists willing to use their own people as shields.

How many times have we seen this, though? People take human shields all the time in and outside of wars. The answer is never to ignore the shields. Those are fucking people.

Both sides are fucking monsters in this conflict... But Israel is emphatically more successful at killing civilians. It's literally a fact at this stage, with mountains of evidence.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Fuck me for expecting the non terrorist to have better standards?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

You seem to forget that israel took hostages in the first place and the reason Hamas kidnapped people is literally to swap them for the hostages kidnapped by israel.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's my point here, blaming just one side makes no sense. Both sides have been committing atrocities for decades.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yet one side is trying to reach a peaceful solution. Hamas.

You can be mad about Hamas using violence but we have left them no other option.

In the West Bank israel is committing Genocide as well. And those people have been trying the peaceful way for decades. And we do not condemn israel for doing so. In fact we keep supporting them and sending them the weapons to commit Genocide and help colonists annex more land.

Israel has made it extremely clear that they will never agree to a peaceful resolution unless they are forced into it. Both with words as with actions, they verbatimly state that they will never agree to let Palestinians have a state.

So no, there is no both sides. There is one side constantly punching the other and the only reason the other side hits back is because it wants the israeli side to stop hitting them.

[+] [email protected] -8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Also the IDF was fired upon when they raided. That makes this just war. Hamas chose the war zone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Also ~~the IDF~~ Hamas was fired upon when they raided in October. That makes this just war. ~~Hamas~~ Israel chose the war zone.

Swap the word Hamas with israel every time you think there's a great argument to post. Helps to avoid advocating for the murder of civilians like some crazy extremist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

An extremist would say that this can't end until one side kills the other, so might as well get it over with.

I don't believe that. I think as humans we have an obligation to try for peace without murdering half a million people. Unlike most people here, I want to believe that someday both sides can find a way to peace.

But if you insist that one side is good and one side is bad, then this can't end well.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You're also a racist that believes all Palestinians want to kill all Israelis.

You state this openly, and then post a link to a study that doesn't make that claim at all or anything resembling it and call it a source. Which, of course, isn't how sources work. This is how sources work: https://lemmy.ml/post/15906506/11178832 The important bit there is that the source actually shows what I said it shows because I'm not a bad faith liar that enjoys justifying genocide.

You're already insisting one side is good and one side is bad when you intentionally, and surreptitiously lie to try and get people to think your racist statement is true, hoping they don't actually click through to your so-called sources.

So, please, pardon me if I don't believe your bullshit pretending you want peace between the two sides.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yes, "lemmy.ml" is how sources work.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

No, sources link by linking to the thing you say you're linking to.

In this example, I'm linking to your disgusting racist lie in your post that you also appended a source to that didn't corroborate your racist lie.

I'm going to be curious to see if you end up editing out the proof of your racism eventually in the future.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I would argue that one side is fighting to achieve peace while the other side is fighting for the destruction of a population and the annexation of their land.

Remind me again who is rejecting the ceasefire offers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I would argue that one side is fighting to achieve peace

Hilarious. Which side is that?

(The second part I won't argue. The inevitable annexation is deplorable.)

[–] [email protected] -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Hamas is has laid out a very clear and peace plan and has even agreed to a 2 state solution.

Objectively looking at the situation one cannot say that there are two sides which do not want peace.

Only one side does not want peace, and that is israel.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If Hamas hasn't given up their hostages, they must not be that interested in peace.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago

Israel said they will not stop the Genocide nor release the Palestinian hostages if Hamas releases their hostages. So not sure what you are talking about.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Fuck Hamas for keeping hostages in a refugee camp, though

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Yes fuck Hamas, but where else do you keep them? Not like they've got equipped POW camps or secure bunkers.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 5 months ago

"By the time it was over, four Israeli hostages had been brought home alive and mostly unscathed, at least physically, and at least 274 Palestinians, and an Israeli commando, had been killed."

Holy shit. What a clusterfuck.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

And quite possibly killed three more hostages in the action. Hamas is claiming it and the IDF is denying it. But considering that the four hostages saved were being held in the same place as one of the higher ups, if the IDF has just been bombing every other family home of Hamas members (remember the Where's Daddy AI system?), then it seems quite likely they could kill hostages in the process.

load more comments