this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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The whole article is quite funny, especially the lists of most used tankie words, or the branding of foreignpolicy as a left-wing news source.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I did an in-depth 'debunk' of this study.

I want to highlight the most egregious part of it, to me at least. Here's an excerpt from my article:

As we find later in Section 5.4, tankies have the most proportion of posts with high identity attack against Jews in the far-left community.

??? Let’s pull up that section quickly:

The Perspective API [92] is a widely used [9, 12, 26] tool for measuring toxicity. Although it has limitations, e.g., there are issues of bias and questions of performance when encountering conversation patterns that it was not trained on, at scale it provides a decent measure for comparison between online communities.

They used an API tool to analyze comments on the tankie subreddits. They specifically mention that it has limitations if it wasn’t trained on certain conversation patterns. The Perspective website doesn’t mention it being trained on Reddit comments or comments in leftist communities. This is junk science, of course.

Finally, we observe that tankies frequently target Muslims and Jews in their posts.

I’m not about to dig too deep into the way this API determines what constitutes an Identity Attack, since this study doesn’t even attempt to elaborate on it, but I’m going to assume that if it detects ‘hateful words’ in the same comment as a ‘named entity’ like Jew or Muslim, it just assumes the comment is attacking that entity.

Here’s the problem. A comment like this:

“Zionists are pieces of shit for assuming all Jews support Israel”

or this:

“Implying that the US gives a fuck about Muslims when they criticize China is delusional”

would likely be considered by this bot to be an attack against Jews or Muslims. Curiously, this report doesn’t provide a single shred of evidence of these attacks on Jews or Muslims. But, in the ‘C.1 Qualitative Validation’ section, they do give some examples of the toxic comments that this bot identified. Not a single one is specifically about Jews or Muslims.

Here’s two examples:

To me, boarding schools serve as schools for potential terrorists, and China’s approach seems more humane than the US’s

and

Zionism equates to Fascism.

Neither comment is an Identity Attack against Muslims or Jews. The first is talking specifically about the small portion of Uyghurs that China has identified as being radicalized, not all Muslims. The second is about Zionism, which as this study pointed out, does not mean all Jews. Neither one contains the word ‘Jew’, or ‘Muslim’, anyway.

Hmm, I wonder why they omitted that. Because the truth doesn’t fit the ‘tankie bad’ narrative they are pushing? This is research misconduct, pure and simple, and this singular example of evidentiary omission should cause any non-tankies reading this study to dismiss it in its entirety. But of course, it won’t.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

i'm thinking about their claim that "the predominant topic of discussion" among tankies is the uyghur "genocide." like bro there's 99 more percentiles of non-uyghur related topics. i see a post about xinjiang on here like once a month.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Even then, most of the time, it's because someone comes along and says, "You claim that China has built railways but don't you know about Xinjiang, which means there can't be any semiconductors".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I have an idea about why they'd come to a weird conclusion like that:

A "hot" topic like that might have outsized participation. That is, a single post about the topic may have a huge number of comments compared to an every day post. They don't have methodology to differentiate between a rare-but-popular topic and an "every day" topic.

Just another example of how their poor methodology allows poor conclusions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

LESGOOOO #LEMMYGRADSWEEP ✊✊✊🫡🫡🫡

also: genocide, xinjiang, camps, communism, no, inshallah, socialism, socialist, is, the, of, korea, north, kim, dprk, korean, media, chen, falun, gong, news, comrade, thanks, you, comrades, thank, thank, thanks, you, nice, good, fascism, fascist, fascists, the, is, ussr, soviet, the, art, of, lol, wtf, real, holy, wait, ok, hope, wish, you, sorry, fucking, bot, fuck, sometimes, beep, china, nukes, us, war, the, joke, submission, guideline, r/socialism, this, cuba, cuban, castro, the, fidel, lgbt, trans, gay, the, and, vote, voting, caucus, party, green, source, u/vredditdownloader, context, picture, where

i am now a master tankie 🫡🫡🫡

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why do they think we think all Jews are Zionists?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

so like the pairs talk about Zionism and Israel and their conclusion is the complete opposite? That we target all Jews? Despite never using the word??

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I took a look at the article and the authors. The senior author is a computer science guy focused on researching online harmful behavior.

It's quite telling that he has no humanities training whatsoever in his academic background. A CS guy doing humanities research without any training in humanities.

I myself fit the description of guy from a hard quantitative science background who delved into humanities and social sciences research. I'll honestly say to you: the only thing worse than a humanities researcher who eschew any type of quantitative research as "positivist reductionism" is a "hard science guy" who thinks he^[1]^ doesn't have to give a shit to the work that was done by humanities researchers because "numbers will tell me everything I need to know".

[1] Masculine referents 100% intended because it's usually a guy.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't know if humanities could have salvaged some of this paper. They just make so many assumptions out of thin air and expect the reader to just go along with them, like this here:

The support of tankies for the hardline Soviet era extends to Russia’s current authoritarian regime’s actions.

This is a specific claim, that in other words says "tankies support the Soviet Union, and as such they support the Russian Federation". But no source accompanies this claim, no definitions either, and ultimately the next sentence contradicts this claim -- they started from the conclusion, the starting point being them wanting to prove "Acceptence [sic] of the Russian Narrative in Ukraine" (yes the typo was originally there).

But the two are two entirely different claims, it does not logically follow that support for the USSR means support of Russia in the war. They just gloss over that though and start talking about their "word pairs" as if that proved anything lol

This is divination for computer scientists.

I've never written a scientific paper before but I would be ashamed to actually put this out for my peers to review.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The whole thing just screams of "Fund me, daddy CIA!"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

they where funded by the US government a little over half a million dollars

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Half a million for this is both hilarious and sad. On the one hand that could have funded several researchers doing actual science for the public benefit so it's a tragedy, on the other they grifted half a million dollars for what isn't even 50k of work IMO. I mean this is stuff that random hobbyists do in their free time in about a month or less and post on subreddits about data visualization for free.

On the other hand money is not really an object when it comes to fighting the enemies of capital and empire so a small price to pay I'm sure. And better spent here (in their minds) than on researching actual hate groups and extremists like Nazis, channer-fash, alt-right, Qanon weirdos, etc which while it could be done to this caliber would obviously look a little lacking for the 500k considering there are private groups that do far better research on them and publish far better reports for far less money.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will be honest, the work done here, in this thread is more than they did in the entire paper. and of higher quality, in my humble opinion.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Which is why we're worth every Xi buck.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shh! If they find out we're funded by China they might use their powerful, scary AI word-cloud analysis on us and cause trouble (somehow).

Also Xi says to please increase the frequency of the usage of the phrase SWCC. He says if we are going to be funded we need to better extol its virtues and that means by the next paper like this it better be there near the very top or cuts are coming to our funding.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The comment length limit is 5,000 characters so you could make a comment consisting of SWCC 1,000 times

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

As an anarchist, I'm betting on a short (yes I own stocks, it funds the revolution, you tankies would do this too if you were actually socialists like me and realised the revolution doesnt come from your well wishes and online posting). As more and more people realies how tankeis are actually not socialists but authoritarian red fascists, they will naturally abandon this label and it will plummet in the graph. its just human anture.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

boy howdy, this """study""" entirely lacks an understanding of "tankie" positions.

We, according to them, are more toxic when talking about propaganda that's constantly pushed in our faces - often in conversations that had nothing to do with that propaganda. Gee, I wonder why that would be. Why would people who have to repeatedly explain anti-communism to anti-communists want to let off steam with like-minded people, who also have to deal with the same exact thing? Dumbass takes from this """study"""

Also, I'm betting the people who did this study are going to come find this post and use it to prove themselves right, but all they'll really prove is that they think it's the fault of the bees when a person gets stung after poking the nest.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Michael Sirivianos' grandpa took part in a right-wing extremist ultranationalist coup in Cyprus, which led to the Turkish invasion. He is suspected to be involved in a genocidal incident that was covered up. His uncle was a right-wing political leader and when he was the President of the Parliament in Cyprus, he was involved in the golden passports scandal (see this excellent Al Jazeera undercover report which initiated the investigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj18cya_gvw). His position in the University of Cyprus was "arranged" by his uncle when he was Parliament President.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Every single fucking time. Wonder if his "research colleagues" know of his background?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd say they probably know of his affiliations. I dont think this sort of paper gets written "randomly". So-called disinformation experts are by and large state operators, and Western states have been fervent anticommunists since 1917.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Soon we will be more tankie than Marxists.org.

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