this post was submitted on 18 May 2024
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OK, I hope my question doesn't get misunderstood, I can see how that could happen.
Just a product of overthinking.

Idea is that we can live fairly easily even with some diseases/disorders which could be-life threatening. Many of these are hereditary.
Since modern medicine increases our survival capabilities, the "weaker" individuals can also survive and have offsprings that could potentially inherit these weaknesses, and as this continues it could perhaps leave nearly all people suffering from such conditions further into future.

Does that sound like a realistic scenario? (Assuming we don't destroy ourselves along with the environment first...)

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

If genetic research gets to a point where we can beat any mutations, then probably not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

No. Human evolution is driven primarily by mate selection.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sexual selection usually takes care of problems like this. People with antisocial tendencies find it extremely difficult to find partners.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Unfortunately, not when they have money.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I would say that the greater the population (in part thanks to medicine) the greater the chances of beneficial mutations occurring and entering the collective gene pool. I see medicine as a safety net. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but that's my professional take on it, as a musician.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

I don't think so.

For one, natural selection selects the "fittest", but what the "fittest" means, changes over time.

Also, there's lots of other factors that you may have overlooked, such as sexual selection probably playing a bigger factor.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Yes. Without the selection pressures to minimize disease, we observe more disease in the population over time. This reduces our fitness for any environment without the artificial benefit of modern medicine.

People don't want to understand because it is difficult and challenges their worldview. Is this an existential risk? Yes. Can we do anything about it? Yes.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I expect gene editing soon to become so cheap that everyone starts customising their children, resulting in a situation analogous to where dogs are now: extreme variability improving the chances for survival by making sure we have the needed people for any situation except gamma ray burst which requires backups far from Earth.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

I've been working on a sci Fi show where humans have this but they also have the ability to change their current physiology by infecting themselves with modified strains of cancer that slowly replaces you're body with one you downloaded off the Internet this technology has also sorta obsoleted medicine because if you have a broken leg or infected with a fatel desese so long as the injury doesn't affect your brain you can just replace your entire body by infecting yourself with genetically modified cancer

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Natural selection led to our intelligence to be able to made medicine in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago

The more varied the sample of individuals you can afford to keep alive in your population, the more chances you have that a subset of them will be able to withstand random changes in the fitness function. If the environment changes abruptly, you will have a hard time adapting as a species if you only ever supported people "within the norm". What happens in those cases is called extinction.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

There are already lots of great answers, I would like to point out that Natural Selection doesn't care about the individual at all, it cares about the population, e.g. internal gestation, do you think any individual enjoys carrying a baby inside them? Preventing them from doing anything during the gestation period, being an easier prey to predators, etc... Unfortunately for the individual, creatures that carry their unborn babies inside them are less likely to abandon them even temporarily while seeking food, they're also more easily kept warm, so for the species as a whole it's better that there be internal gestation.

In short more individuals = better, imagine you have two populations, one with only 10 strong individuals, and one with 100 individuals of which only 10 are strong, which do you think is more likely to survive? And that is even assuming a strong/weak deterministic position, which is not the case for anything.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Plenty of answers already.

I'd like to point out that it's not medicine alone, but empathy that changes natural selection. We have evidence of our ancestors caring for members of their tribe that would have been unable to survive otherwise.

But while in some edge cases (some diseases) you could make an argument that it's bad for future humanity for some reason, it's overall good, because it enables a larger population. And a larger population has a better chance of mutating to fit changing environments. Or to phrase it differently: diversification comes first, selection can wait.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Populations do not mutate. Mutations occur randomly within individuals, they do not occur to fit a changing environment, they only occur randomly. A mutation can spread through a population if nothing selects against it. Selection never waits, it's always there in one form or another.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Call me when evolution figures out how to deal with guns and automotive accidents, which likely represent the largest selection factors on modern humans.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Actually education is probably the largest selection factor. Educated people have less children than less educated people. Sometimes massively so. This is not necessarily linked with intelligence, it correlates more with socio economic factors.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

The problem is that people don't seem to realize the difference between causes of deaths and population declination. Even if for some reason humans everywhere agree on The Purge like laws except for every day, that wouldn't represent a risk for humanity (as long as governments still withhold their nuclear arsenal), some cities might be all but wiped out, but the chances are humans will survive. Anarchy was the status quo for the vast majority of human existence, and we're still here.

However other seemingly innocuous things are much worse for humanity as a whole, e.g. electing politicians who disregard climate change or that intend on using military power to take others territories can have much larger consequences on humanity as a whole. Your example is also great, because it's counter intuitive that higher education leads to population declination, that being said I believe that also wouldn't become an extinction event, surely the world would become a place where highly educated people want to have children before that.

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