But will he do anything to stop their extremism or reduce their numbers?
spoiler
No.
this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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What exactly do you expect him to do?
I don't expect anything from Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden.
But what he could do is use his unparalleled ability to communicate with the public to rally antifascist and progressive forces into direct action against the MAGA movement. Rather than just waiting until the next game of voteball, a united front could stand up and break up the fascists before they became a problem in the first place.
Oh, hey, how about that - didn't expect to see an r/Iowa refugee over here. Welcome to the greener pastures that are generally just as painfully, unthinkingly liberal but far less cancerous.
😘
That requires active engagement in one's community beyond vote-shaming and whining on social media - you're not going to see much of this from either party.
Actual community involvement is hard. let's go joe, blue no matter who, if you don't vote blue you enable fascists etc. is easy and still lets them feel good about doing something... even if it's ultimately ineffective.
I think they especially hate people who vote third party or conscientiously abstain from electoralism because they know, deep down, that none of that shit really matters.
And if voting doesn't really matter, they have to face the truth - they have done absolutely nothing at all
You. mean the thing he literally did?
No? He told us to play voteball. That's it.
Ah, you're one of those people who think voting doesn't change anything. Got it.
Well voting isn't going to actually get rid of these people. They'll still be here after the election no matter who wins.
Getting rid of them requires other action.
Oh, I see. You want to start murdering people. Go ahead and start. I'm sure the rest of us will be right behind you.
I said no such thing!
My enemies deserve the chance to be rehabilitated in work camps - so really what we need is to make the election irrelevant if you know what I mean.
Extremism is born out of fear and desperation. And the number one driver of that is financial insecurity. I really wish he would say he was doing something about these fundamental issues: a liveable minimum wage, housing issues, education, and health care. He's not wrong about these asshole insurrectionist Republicans, but pointing out that their thinking is anti-American and backwards doesn't really get to the root of the issues.
Oh my god; someone still selling the ridiculous narrative that these white supremacist fascists are being white supremacist fascists because of "economic anxiety"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/us/politics/trump-economic-anxiety.html
What they fear is losing the privileged status of white supremacy in America; what they're desperate to stop is a more equal society. They didn't march demanding more pay, better working conditions, or more upward mobility in Charlottesville, they marched chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil." They've been telling us, loudly, for years what it's all really about and people still want to believe it's about economics as if there weren't dozens of very well-off people arrested for trying to attack Congress on January 6th.
. They didn’t march demanding more pay, better working conditions, or more upward mobility in Charlottesville, they marched chanting “Jews will not replace us” and “blood and soil.”
Yeah, because they're fucking stupid and they don't know why they have poor pay, poor working conditions, and no upward mobility. They literally believe it's a conspiracy by Them to keep the white man down. They're dummies.
But that doesn't actually mean economic factors aren't the primary motivator. There's still an underlying, material problem.
They're no more stupid than leninists. Honestly both having roots being on the authoritarian end of the spectrum. They are an excellent mirror of each other. Having more in common than they are different realistically.
It's really isn't a problem of stupidity. More a problem of taking an ideology or way of thinking as the core of their personality. Combining that with an unwillingness to rationalize or change.
I consider myself more of a centrist. I think leninists and anarchists both have good ideas
It’s fine to recognize good ideas regardless of source, but politics is so much more than just ideas.
Centrism, especially at this point in time, may be the most dangerous political philosophy of all. After all, they will cast the decisive votes in 2024. The center of “democracy” and “no democracy” is “less democracy”.
Democratic Socialism isn't less democracy and anarchism definitely isn't less democracy so
In general I do not. Since realistically Libertarians, anarchists, etc share any of the good ideas leninists might have. Without embodying all the bad things leninists do. As long as were talking true libertarians, social-libertarians. And not the fash friendly, selfish neo-libertarians of privilege on the right.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No matter the intentions behind it.
What absolute power? Power to the people my dude!
A party that's socially suppresses the people does not represent the people. I say this about capitalism and leninism both. The party should only answer to the people. Not the other way round.
Like the farmers that under threat of the party. We're forced to listen to the lunatic ramblings of Trofim Lysenko. Discarding what they knew would work to follow his unfounded recommendations. Exacerbating famines in Russia China Etc killing Millions. Committees and councils are absolutely bad about inaction. But inaction on genocide and torture I'll take that any day.
As we all know, famine never happened before the revolution. 🙄
Nice deflection. There was Global famine happening. Yes it happened before. His policies specifically pushed by the party militantly exacerbated and killed Millions more people than would have otherwise died. But you can't face that fact. This is what I talk about no ability to be rational or self critique.
How was there a global famine happening if communism only emerged in one country at that point? Doesn't that strike you as odd?
Or are you one of those ultra left "everyone except for my sooper speshul ideology is bad!"?
How was there a global famine happening if communism only emerged in one country at that point? Doesn't that strike you as odd?
No. Because that's a non sequitur claim that I never made.
Or are you one of those ultra left "everyone except for my sooper speshul ideology is bad!"?
No not at all. I can work with liberals and other right Wingers of their ilk. I disagree with them highly. But can work with it. It's the authoritarians and those who selfishly enable authoritarians for their own benefits that I don't get along with.
No. Because that’s a non sequitur claim that I never made.
You definitely implied it by blaming communism in Russia for famine, when the famine itself was global.
No not at all. I can work with liberals and other right Wingers of their ilk. I disagree with them highly.
Okay, so you don't really care about human suffering or death (or else the immense amounts of both under liberalism would bother you) You just don't like being told what to do.
You definitely implied it by blaming communism in Russia for famine, when the famine itself was global.
To quote what I said exactly
His policies specifically pushed by the party militantly exacerbated and killed Millions more people than would have otherwise died.
Is it that English isn't your primary language? Lack of reading comprehension? Or is it just your inability as a Leninist to honestly accept genuine critique?
Okay, so you don't really care about human suffering or death (or else the immense amounts of both under liberalism would bother you) You just don't like being told what to do.
You quoted exactly what I said and then blatantly completely misrepresented it. To be honest I'm completely unsurprised. This is what we can expect from a leninist. Also you do realize that your critique against liberals is equally valid against you as a leninist and the Nations who have adopted your ideology. Two wrongs don't make right. However there is a distinct difference here. There are liberals who in general are not authoritarian. There are not however non authoritarian leninists. It is the core differentiator of your ideology from standard Marxism.
I'm fine with deferring to expertise and following instructions. However unlike yourself I am not a slave devoted to a single static ideology. And unable to think for myself. I am fine with a national government after a fashion. I think there should be a much more even distribution of power and tight restrictions on it. But I think that for instance one perfect example of an issue that needs to be addressed at a national level. Should be guaranteeing human rights. However I don't believe that level of government has any right restricting anything outside of protecting those guarantees. Something that yes liberals have issues with. Though not to the same extent as leninists.
Is it that English isn’t your primary language? Lack of reading comprehension? Or is it just your inability as a Leninist to honestly accept genuine critique?
lol what the fuck
Okay, so like, I was trying to point out the fact that famine being widespread means that the underlying cause is bigger than politics and ideology. No one knew what the fuck they were doing. There isn't some fatal flaw of Leninism that causes famine and is somehow unique to Leninism, that's just how agriculture was before scientific understanding advanced to the point that we could truly industrialize the agricultural industry.
You quoted exactly what I said and then blatantly completely misrepresented it. To be honest I’m completely unsurprised. This is what we can expect from a leninist. Also you do realize that your critique against liberals is equally valid against you as a leninist and the Nations who have adopted your ideology. Two wrongs don’t make right. However there is a distinct difference here.
I literally said I also think anarchists have good ideas, I wouldn't consider myself pure M-L or anything. Back off lol
There are liberals who in general are not authoritarian.
lol
I’m fine with deferring to expertise and following instructions. However unlike yourself I am not a slave devoted to a single static ideology.
And what is to be done when there aren't any experts? When all the instructions you have to follow are folk wisdom and superstition? That's what the USSR was dealing with back then. Again, no one knew what the fuck they were doing. They weren't special. That's just how the world was.
And as we speak and without any centralized ideology the agricultural industry is destroying our world; emitting carbon and methane, polluting our drinking water, incubating new diseases, causing oceanic dead zones, inducing metabolic diseases like diabetes and obesity, deforesting and destroying habitat, on and on it goes.
How do you solve that without authority to crack down and force people to stop chopping down the Amazon and stop keeping pigs in tiny cages filled with shit?
I was trying to point out the fact that famine being widespread means that the underlying cause is bigger than politics and ideology. No one knew what the fuck they were doing.
Lysenko had less idea than anyone else about what they were doing. However he was promoted to the Soviet head of agriculture science. And his batshit crazy ideas were pushed by the party. Simply out of a feel-good desire because it aligned with their political beliefs. Literally forcing Farmers to plant the wrong things against their will. And even plow glass and other trash into the fields in China to increase soil volume. Those policies demonstrably made the famine worse. It happened everywhere else in the globe for the most part too but those places did not have tens of millions combined to compare with either Russia or China. And lessenko and the party is to thank for that.
I literally said I also think anarchists have good ideas, I wouldn't consider myself pure M-L or anything. Back off lol
Anarchists, libertarians, and even leninists have a lot of ideological overlap. We're socialists after all. Even if leninists are only nomally so. That doesn't mean you're a centrist. Because I'll tell you one area where we anarchist / Libertarians disagree with you wildly. The authoritarian Mono Party bullshit. That you as a solid ml are always around hypocritically pushing. Or that bullshit about Al Franken recently. Perhaps you should take your own advice.
And what is to be done when there aren't any experts? When all the instructions you have to follow are folk wisdom and superstition?
Seriously. Research Lysenko. It was literally the parties's rejection of those exact things along with scientific method facts and reality. That compounded the famine and made them rack up the high score. Seriously stop ignoring what's being said or hand waving it away. I'm not repeating his name for my own health or sanity. It is a prime example of the failures of authoritarianism leninism included.
And as we speak and without any centralized ideology the agricultural industry is destroying our world;
Did you fail to notice modern farming today is largely centrally owned and controlled? It's not a bunch of little disparate mom and pop shops. There is absolutely a central ideology behind it. Perpetual and impossible growth at all costs. With no focus on sustainability.
There is Authority Beyond threats of imprisonment or murder. This is the reason no one likes leninists. To a leninist winning a debate is my gun to your head or my tank in your face. It isn't about the strength, authority, or inherent value of your ideas. Often quite the opposite. It's how you end up with thin-skinned strong men like ole poppy Pooh Bear. Speaking of Xi what are your thoughts on the recent Naomi Wu situation? She had been one of the biggest ambassadors for technology and makers for China and Chinese companies. And giving a face to many of the often too faceless Chinese people. It sure was humanitarian of ole Xi's thugs to come threaten her and her partner for the mild criticisms she made. And I do mean mild. Seeing as how Wu had previously spent most of her life hiding from the party. Yet still generally supportive and apologetic of how China has been. It's a good thing China isn't bigoted/racist. With an axe to grind against lesbians like Wu or uighers like her partner.
Lysenko had less idea than anyone else about what they were doing. However he was promoted to the Soviet head of agriculture science. And his batshit crazy ideas were pushed by the party. Simply out of a feel-good desire because it aligned with their political beliefs
I'm familiar with him (we learned about his failures in my highschool actually), but his ideas (while wrong) weren't all that much worse than the other dumb shit people believed.
I'll give you one thing, decentralized agriculture at least means every individual farmer is trying their own whacky shit and occasionally they get lucky. Central control destroys that. If the central ideas are bad, like the modern model of infinite growth at any cost, then the results are bad.
Did you fail to notice modern farming today is largely centrally owned and controlled? It’s not a bunch of little disparate mom and pop shops. There is absolutely a central ideology behind it. Perpetual and impossible growth at all costs. With no focus on sustainability.
Fair - but that is liberalism. The ones you think you can work with. What's up with that?
Speaking of Xi what are your thoughts on the recent Naomi Wu situation?
They want centralized control over their image in the West (she had an English speaking audience after all), and she wasn't the image they wanted. Tragic collateral damage in a propaganda war.
They also have a backwards notion that queer people must be silenced to promote population growth - as if we aren't, ourselves, important family members that can help our straight brothers and sisters watch their kids.
Central control is good when the central ideas are good, it's bad when the central ideas are bad. I think that's pretty obvious. What's so hard to understand about that?
While we're on China, what are your thoughts on the fact that Chinese life expectancies have surpassed Americans?