Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
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Someone looking to buy a car or any variety is not going to be swayed by online forum posts, unfortunately
I think it's funny that you overlooked vans like most people do. Vans make more sense for way more people than trucks and SUVs do. But they have a huge stigma attached to them and people don't want to look uncool.
Except vans aren't actually all that efficient, compare a Toyota Hiace VS Hilux, or ford Ranger vs Transit, and they are very similar in size and economy, with the Hilux actually being more efficient than the Hiace.
The biggest reason so many people have utes or pickups where I live is for towing, and the ability to carry five passengers and have luggage in a separate compartment.
I drive a van for work, and I'm well aware of how practical they are, but it only has one row of seats, can't tow bugger all, and would get stuck on wet grass.
There's plenty of work vans that are designed for a full 5 person crew. Vans can also easily tow whatever is needed for that crew, if the van was specced for it. It's like not all vans were created equal and thus there are vans out there that are not like your van.
OK, but what's the advantage? If the van is the same size as an equivalent pickup, how is it the better option?
And what model of van can carry five passengers and tow 3.5 tonne?
For me the biggest advantage is that vans fully enclose their cargo: good against climate and less likely to lose stuff to theft.
For towing capacity, this article gives 3 models that can tow 3.5 ton: https://www.vanarama.com/blog/vans/van-towing-capacity-chart-whats-the-best-van-for-towing
Seating can be however you want it to be. Vans are also used as mini buses, so all seating configurations in between no passengers and all passengers are possible.
Those are all bigger in every dimension than a ute though.
So, I repeat my question. How is a bigger, likely less efficient vehicle an improvement over a ute? Especially considering they can't travel off road.
Also, lockable canopies are commonplace where I live.
Yeah, moving goalposts now are we :D
I could try look up a smallish van with high towing capacity, it's probably not even that hard to find, seeing how easily I found multiple vans that fitted your earlier criteria, but somehow I know that I'd be wasting my time. You'll grasp at any straw and think up any rare scenario to justify your belief in trucks.
Trucks have their applications sure, especially for gardening/farming or other mobile crews that can benefit from having that mobile open bed near them, but for most work crews, vans are the better solution.
You didn't answer my question. How is a van inherently better than a ute of similar size? What's the difference?
And you could drive a Kei truck into the vans with a 3500kg tow rating.
The Toyota Sienna can apparently tow ~~3.5 tonnes~~ 3500 lbs and carry 8 passengers. Average mpg while not towing is 36 too.
But most people don't tow anything ever and a van would be just fine.
Clearly I'm not most people then.
The Toyota Sienna can apparently tow 3.5 tonnes
Bullshit. Show me the spec sheet.
Also, people movers generally aren't made to move adults, eight manual labourers would be a tight fit, and leave no room for luggage.
Sorry, 3500 lbs. I'm not arguing that a minivan is a good work vehicle btw, but most families looking at SUVs would be better with a van. That's my argument.
The two most common use cases where I live for a ute or pickup is a tradie or tech that wants one vehicle to serve as a work vehicle and a family car, or someone who wants the towing capacity of a ute or SUV. Neither one can really use a van, as trade vans only have one row of seats.
Most SUV owners want the towing capacity and ground clearance of an SUV.
It can tow 3500. 1.5 tons and that isn't a lot. Not as much as an SUV with a towing package and not even close to a 1/2 ton truck.
My b, 3500lbs. Most families aren't towing anything though. I'm not going to disparage anyone with a truck who needs to tow or haul a bunch. But there are people who don't tow anything and complain about midsize SUVs not having enough space for their family but balk at the idea of a van.
Yeah, 1.5 tonne sounds more reasonable.
Won't tow construction equipment or a large boat or caravan, or travel off road, of course.
Trucks don’t innately get worse mileage and not all trucks are big. Also, a new vehicle, including big trucks, will be better on the environment than a 20yr old wagon. Age is more relevant than model. You seem to be off track here.
Just fix the laws in the US, and pickups and trucks for personal use will be as about nonexistent as in Europe.
*bakfiets. Don't forget the s.
It's a bike (fiets) with a bin/container (bak) in front of it.
Anyway, I think you're preaching to the choir here.
You're very much right. Like I said in the post, this was intended as something of a personal log entry rather than a thought-provoking discussion. I get very tempted to buy these pieces of shit when I know that I don't need them. I vaguely mentioned the "outdoors lifestyle" since that's one of the biggest appeals to consumers. What they fail to realize is that a mountain bike or even a simple hike offer a better off-roading experience. Also, thank you for the spell check.
True, although these posts do reach /all from time to time.
also consider a station wagon
Do they still make those?
In europe they sell like crazy, the volvo V90 is cery popular, but even the WV Golf has a station wagon configuration
I see them a lot in Colorado
If I'm not mistaken, they still sell them in "big" numbers in the EU. The only car sold in the U.S that could be considered a "station wagon" is the Subaru Outback but the latest models have become way too bloated. Technically speaking, the "station wagon" (or "estate" if you're British) no longer exists since it has (mostly) merge with the equally abysmal "crossover."
Subaru markets the Outback as an SUV, and has done since at least 2004.
The new ones are utterly hideous, I agree with that.
It's been harder and harder to find them in North America over the last few years. I think in Canada its just the premium German manufacturers (Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche) and Volvo who still have them.
Yeah, they have their place as working vehicles. Unfortunately too many are just pavement princess trucks. They might haul a few hundred pounds (not counting the driver) a few times a year.
It's the mindset of fear and envy that underpins consumerism that needs to change.
No, the huge american pickuptrucks does not have a place as working vehicles, the are too big and too fragile, get a WV Transport pickup or van, way more practical than a huge F-150 or similar