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Horses on a Kentucky farm are helping men build sober lives, gain work and reunite families (apnews.com)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/38506198

Frank Taylor’s idea for the Stable Recovery program was born six years ago out of a need for help on his family’s 1,100-acre farm that has foaled and raised some of racing’s biggest stars in the heart of Kentucky horse country.

The area is also home to America’s bourbon industry and racing has long been associated with alcohol.

“If a horse won, I drank a lot,” Taylor said. “If a horse lost, I drank a lot.”

The basic framework for the program at Taylor Made Farm came from a restaurant he frequents whose owner operates it as a second-chance employment opportunity for people in recovery. Taylor thought something similar would work on his farm, given the physical labor involved in caring for horses and the peaceful atmosphere.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Frank Taylor’s idea for the Stable Recovery program was born six years ago out of a need for help

And a desire to not pay that help, apparently. He might eventually offer them a job, but even then it only pays a decent wage after 90 days.

The goal is to keep men in the program for a year as opposed to other recovery programs that run for 30, 60 or 90 days.

Yeah I bet. Free help for a year is a pretty sweet deal.

This isn't that uplifting after all. Maybe it helps, I don't doubt that, but Taylor gets a shitload of value out of it ($17/hr, purportedly what that labor is worth, times 2080 hours in a year = ~$35k per person per year.)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Geez, the cynicism runs deep with this one.

The wages you're quoting is on top of the fact that they don't charge anything for any of this until the men start working at which point it is $100 a week for food, shelter, clothing, and transportation. Do you know how much the average recovery program costs a patient? About $6k a month. The purpose, community, and stability these men are finding here is priceless.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Except the men are working for the entire year that they're there (if they stay that long) for, effectively, room and board? Maybe it's worth it to them, I dunno, all I know is Taylor is getting a pretty sweet deal. Re:recovery programs - you mean the kind that provide active support, regular counseling, etc like this guy isn't providing? And do you know how much AA meetings cost? Nothing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They're working and receiving room, board, and around $35k/yr. And a stable, supportive environment where they get transportation to outpatient counseling services, where the counselors stay in regular communication with the folks who run the program. You're making this sound like it's a grift

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Once they're hired (if they're hired), but the impression I got from the article is that they are not paid for that initial year. Yeah recovery programs cost money, but also I didn't see anything in the article about counselors, so it's more like summer camp for adults who are already in recovery on their own (they require 30 days sober to join) and need a way to stay clean. Which, fair enough, that's a valuable service, but I don't think it's $35k worth of free labor valuable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think we are reading it differently. From the article, emphasis added:

"[Their day] includes rising at 4:30 a.m., cleaning their room, keeping the public areas spotless. There are Alcoholic Anonymous meetings at 6 a.m. and work hours run from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m. four days a week. Life on the farm involves grooming the horses, getting them out of their stalls and into the pastures daily, visits from veterinarians and farriers, and farm maintenance.

The other days the men attend therapy offsite or visit doctors in an effort to build their sobriety. Stable Recovery partners with an outpatient treatment program that provides classes and therapists and both sides keep in constant communication."

So work is a part of the program, not something that comes afterwards. I did not see anything saying they are not paid for the initial year. It says they are not paid until they start working (but neither are they charged). How soon they start working probably depends on going through some training and whether or not they have prior experience in the industry, but the point is that it doesn't say anything about a year before they can work. It says the goal is to have them in the program for a year, but work is part of the program.

And as the second paragraph points out, they partner with therapists and doctors in outpatient treatment. It's not just AA meetings.

One thing I missed until I reread this was that their work week is 4 days. Another reason I don't think this is about taking advantage of anyone.

For what it's worth 30 days of sobriety is a minimum standard for most sober living programs. It improves the odds of success and reduces the chances that someone will bring a substance into the community. It's not like they are fine after 30 days, it is a bare minimum standard needed to make the rest of treatment effective.

Idk, seems like they are genuinely interested in the well-being of the participants.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

I keep trying to explain to people that prisoners (or I guess in this case rehabbing addicts) should have to grow and cook their OWN food, make and wash their OWN clothes, clean and maintain their OWN housing, but that any unpaid work they do for the wider society fundamentally incentivizes imprisoning people. Sometimes I get people to understand, but idk that it really sticks long enough for them to be outraged by it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Funded by donations, Stable Recovery does no advertising. Colleagues in the racing industry contact Taylor about potential participants. Sobriety homes and judges in the area also refer men, with the program offered as an alternative to jail.

It doesn’t charge its participants until they start earning money once they begin working on the farm.

At that point, they pay $100 a week for food, housing, clothing and transportation. They earn $10 an hour the first 90 days, then get a raise to $15 to $17 an hour.

Food, housing, clothing and $35k on top while turning your life around? That sounds miraculous.

But maybe you’re right and jail or death is better. I dunno.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Food, housing, clothing if you're lucky, and maybe one day a job that pays $35k, but only after a year of working for room and board. I'm not saying it's not helping them or that it's not worth it, just that this article heaps praise on Taylor when it seems like all he was after was some cheap help.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

None of that is accurate. They get all the food, clothing, housing right away and they get paid as soon as they start working.

That's good pay considering most people with a felony can't get too many types of jobs at all. Plus with experience they can branch out, as some of the examples in the article did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The impression I got from the article is that they only get an offer of a job after they've been there for a year, and if you're not giving someone a job for a year then I think it's safe to assume you're not paying them for that year. The article isn't entirely clear about that, so I admit I'm going on a couple of assumptions here, but I think they're pretty reasonable ones (like no job = no pay.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It doesn’t charge its participants until they start earning money once they begin working on the farm.

At that point, they pay $100 a week for food, housing, clothing and transportation. They earn $10 an hour the first 90 days, then get a raise to $15 to $17 an hour.

Money for work sounds like a job, though right

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Context matters, friend.

Stable Recovery helps the men get a job in the industry after 90 days when they graduate from its School of Horsemanship. Participants don’t have to work in the industry but the majority want to.

So it's 90 days before the job is offered, not a year, my bad. Also you forgot to include the sentence above the one you quoted:

It doesn’t charge its participants until they start earning money once they begin working on the farm.

At that point, they pay $100 a week for food, housing, clothing and transportation. They earn $10 an hour the first 90 days, then get a raise to $15 to $17 an hour.

But still there's some ambiguity here because it says the job is offered after 90 days, so do they pay $10/hr for the first 90 days they're in the program, or only for the first 90 days after the job offer? Again I think it's safe to assume no job = no pay, so it sounds like they work for free for 90 days, then work for $10/hr for 90 days, then it's $15-17 from there. Which, fair enough, is considerably less of a grift than I originally thought.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Context matters, friend.

Agreed. So the context here, is that I already posted this above in our conversation, including the part you claim I left out. (I did leave it out the second time I quoted it because - well, I had already quoted it, and here I was quoting it again, adding to yours that's now three times we've seen the same information that has you confounded but seems clear to me.)

I take "the first 90 days" to mean the first 90 days they're there working, not the "first days after they graduate from the School of Horsemanship". And I've never been to a school where we didn't have to do work, so yeah they pay them from the FIRST DAY they do work.

FWIW I'm guessing there's a period of time where they just walk around, go to meetings, and talk to each other that probably lasts a week-ish. They don't get paid for that because they're not working, yeah? BUT- they're also not paying for anything either, and still getting the housing, food, clothes, etc.

I just think this accusation that they're just looking for free labor and propping up an addiction recovery program with horses (which, btw is an actual thing anyway - they're in a lot of places) is bizarre. It's bad faith on it's face and it's disparaging for no rational reason.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 21 hours ago

You're right, I missed it the first time, my bad.

I take “the first 90 days” to mean the first 90 days they’re there working

That does seem to be one reading of the information available, yes. My point, though, was that it's ambiguous, so it can also be read as they work for free for the first 90 days of the program, then get offered a job where they work for $10/hr for 90 days, then get raised to a decent wage.

Re:bad faith/disparaging - yeah maybe. I've been through/around several recovery programs myself, and they always give me a scummy vibe so maybe I'm just looking for nits to pick. But 90 days free labor (if that's what's going on) is a lot less obviously-scummy than the year I initially thought it was, so. Though again with no mention of counselors or anything this still doesn't seem like much of a 'recovery program', but rather more of a 'get away from the triggers that caused you to drink' program. shrug Either way it does seem to be giving people a second chance and if there's nothing scummy going on then that's unambiguously a good thing.