hexbear

Wanted to update what the considered changes to the community are in summary:

• users can post 3 times a week, asks no more than 100$ each post
• display name is changed to "emergency aid"
• users communicate if they are open to non monetary resources (local aid groups, etc.)
• user requests aid, amount requested in title using [$0/$x] format
• users donate and report the post with the amount donated, mods note it or report it with a message indicating they donated so a mod can comment
• user updates title with amount received and the thread is locked when the goal is met
• meta posts are no longer permitted

We will do a follow up post where voting on keeping the community as is or changing it will occur.

If you want to propose changes to this summary please answer in a comment below this one.

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?
• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?
• do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating?
• do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?
• do you think we should allow meta posts?

No perfect solutions here.

Meta stuff should be kept to a minimum. If somebody thinks/knows a post on the comm is dodgy, they probably should DM the mods of the com with their 'recipts'... but... we're all mostly strangers to each other here so I'd be incredibly surprised if more than a tiny fraction of these "snitch" DM's would have iron clad claims. But if the mods decide there's enough there to act on, it should be a mod who drops a post about why a specific user or post has been locked/deleted/banned with comments from the other mods on the post letting the rest of the hexbear user base know that more mods were okay with the action than not and the conversation stops there.

Nobody here should be gatekeeping what "mutual aid" means. This is an online forum, of anonymous users, where practically no Hexbears are ever physically around another Hexbear user. What "mutual aid" means in this context is pretty much, drop a few bucks in a Venmo or post emojis of sympathy. If you want to drop some change in somebody's digital tin cup, awesome. If you're worried about "being ripped off" you might want to rethink what you're doing looking at the mutual aid com.

I think things should stay the way they are. Maybe there should just be a limit on how often someone can post. It’s a bit unsettling to see some people asking for help week after week, it starts to feel like the help is already factored into their budget and not like an emergency fund.

I don’t say this from a place of ignorance. I grew up in deep poverty myself, and I genuinely wish for all people to be lifted out of poverty and to have all their needs met. Otherwise, I wouldn’t call myself a communist.

What benefit is there to allowing meta posts? The description of mutual aid should be changed to reflect that it is mainly used for fundraising, but if you don't or can't contribute, just unsubscribe or block the comm.

I think it's in a bad state and recently blocked it. A space where community members can help each other out in crisis is great, and while it sometimes functions like that, it's used as an uregulated fundraising charity just as often.

When we see people asking for hundreds of dollars in donations every month, we need to ask if that's actually within the scope of this site to handle in a safe manner. As it stands, I don't think it is. 100 % of the risks is put on the person donating, as that's the only way we can do it with the resources available, but that's an awful way to do charity.

At the very least, I think the current warning in the comm about posts not being vetted is not clear enough and should explicitly warn users that they might be getting scammed.

I think the non-monetary aspect of "mutual aid" could be focused on better in this community, instead of "aid" just being solely monetary donations, we could organise groups and discussions devoted to keeping each other honest with finances, and helping each other budget, find potential sources of income, things like that. Have it work like an actual mutual aid org instead of just a donation bucket. Maybe have a monthly/weekly discussion topic about financial issues and ways to deal with them, or more emphasis on mentorships and accountability, if people have trouble organising their finances and would like someone to help keep them on track for their longer term goals.

This isn't unique to this mutual aid comm, I've seen way too many people spiral despite getting financial aid, because they don't have the emotional support network they actually need to push past their current issues. I don't think we can do things on the same level as an IRL organisation, but a little bit of help beyond just financial aid, might end up going a long way, both for the health of the comm and the people in it.

At the same time, I do recognise that being too open about locations and events is bad opsec, and I'm honestly not really sure how to square that circle.

I don't see how it's possible to run a mutual aid comm with anonymous people scattered all over the world. Mutual aid really requires a much closer knit network of people working together in tangible non-monetary ways. I've done a little mutual aid offline, and mostly it's the combination of a plan and people giving the right aid and advice to advance that plan that really changes people's situation.

What we have is a charity comm. If we're going to run a charity comm some regulation would help.

• Limiting posts to one per week, or month, per account to stop the competition for visibility and subsequent blocking of the comm by people overwhelmed by the number of similar or repeated posts. Hexbear is not a large community, and many people are now blocking the comm because it makes them feel uneasy.

• Enforcing the use of an external tracking tool like GoFundMe so people can be confident when targets are or aren't met for a given post. It also provides a little bit of legitimacy and makes donations easier for many people who would be considering it.

• Allowing people to provide suggestions for local support such as specific food banks or shelters: things that may reduce weekly repeats on the charity comm. Allowing people to suggest alternative purchases or actions, such as a more cost efficient alternative could be useful.

Regardless of moral judgements, donators need confidence in the system for the comm to function. Otherwise it's just a drama generator that fosters contempt and mistrust while also leaving people feeling abandoned. A couple of incidents have really blown peoples trust, and left them fatigued. The situation is not going to change unless adjustments are made. As for discussions about the validity of a users cause - evidently, even when discussion of causes is forbidden, people still seethe and it still seeps into and erupts throughout the whole instance. The amount of recurring drama from one incident alone that is taboo to talk about is enough indication that simply banning discussions isn't actually helping much, if at all.

Mutual_aid being used for scamming is inevitable I think, it is sad but idk, it is what it is. If I help 4 people, and one of them was lying and scamming, I still helped 3 people.

when i was in dire straits and in danger of losing my lease one of my requests was killed in the cradle because the first comment said i was a faker. remove that shit

To be clear, I never intended to scam anyone or anything like that. When I asked for money for a new battery for my car, or whatever, I wasn’t lying. I never intentionally misrepresented my needs. I’m just fucking stupid. I would ask for money for some particular thing, and then instead of holding onto it and being responsible, oops!, I’d go buy something stupid, and no, I don’t mean drugs (I need to clarify something about this, down-comment 👇).

I did not spend all or even most of that $4,000 on drugs.

I am a drug addict. So I do sometimes spend some of the money I’m sent on drugs. Some, but never all. I am not the stereotype you probably have in your head: drugs are not the most important thing to me. When I asked for money for a particular thing, that particular thing is what comes first. When I ask for money for gas for my car I NEED GAS FOR MY CAR.

If you don’t believe me, whatever. You believe what you want to believe.

I like how, no matter how many times I say that I didn’t blow all that money on drugs, that I don’t spend all the money I receive on drugs, this shit just persists and persists.

Nobody was honest with me when I posted threads asking if everything was alright, because it seemed like something was up.

I think it's fine as-is.

The WWW is plenty big. There's risks in everything. My risks when donating make paypal a nonstarter, worst case for me is probably someone unfortunately winding up in a situation that makes the cops look at me. I don't want that. Monero and a venmo account I've acquired which can be funded anonymously.

We're already probably the lightest touch active mutual aid community on the internet. It's cool and I like it, but I suspect banning any meta discussion is only going to make donating (already a huge leap of faith sometimes) even less of a trustworthy shot.

I 100% love and appreciate the desire of this site and my comrades to make a judgment free mutual aid zone, people out there are very genuinely in need and shouldn't have to sing, dance and bare themselves to get some help. However, I do think we have to recognise some basic level of practical limits of our opsec requirements and our shitty society. Banning all meta discussion, the tiniest caveat we have to establish some very basic trust, will not help people actually feel able to provide aid to people who need it.

All being said, I think there's a fine line between metaposting and dramaposting. I see no reason the latter should be allowed. Also some relevant world-famous poetry I'm reminded of:

You often say, “I would give, but only to the deserving.”

The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pasture.

They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.

..

And what desert greater shall there be, than that which lies in the courage and the confidence, nay the charity, of receiving?

And who are you that men should rend their bosom and unveil their pride, that you may see their worth naked and their pride unabashed?

Meta posting opens the door to shame and ridicule. I've already seen this happen by browsing the modlog a few times - it just got handled and i think that it's absolutely good it was handled. i think there's nothing to really say about MA that can't be discussed as issues arise, privately. For better or worse, there are people who enjoy wrecking stuff like it. Issues with specific users can be handled by mods and admins - a lot of what can be said about it would be to curtail or limit the function of MA - the additional burden would be suppressive of use.

Please don't give any room to the sorts who want to metapost about mutual aid - I'm sure some folks mean well, but it's just going to enable drama that doesn't need exist and will impede function

I think the meta posts should be removed. I've only seen people be harassing doing it and the people that need help in m_a (as I am and have been) don't appreciate being talked down to or given unsolicited advice during a bad period of their lives.