As a Jew, fuck Zionism, It's a stain on Judaism and Israel itself. Guess fuck feddit.org too.
this post was submitted on 19 May 2025
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I don't want to defederate anything. What feddit is doing sounds super Orwellian and shitty, but so is .ml sometimes, and I still do stuff which seems positive over there. The thing that lead me to SDF in the first place was the low blocked/blocked by.
Agreed. I periodically check to confirm that SDF is not blocking other instances and feel pride at the free thought. That's part of why I changed my mind and amended the post. This is a topic that matters more to me than a lot of other reasons people on other instances have called for defedding. But rational arguments in the comments pulled me back. Thanks all.
some of the politics communities are starting to get there.
Yeah let's fight censorship with more censorship!! Total isolation!
If you isolate the users of feddit then you won't help them on having different views.
Why help people who are comfortable with "I think brown people dying is neutral to good" is rational thinking?
If they're tolerant of death, and comfortable of being on a Nazi Table of "Maybe murder isn't bad", they're either too stupid to know better or too useful for Zionists.
You're free to educate them. Good luck without being banned for being "anti-Zionist"
I have no input but Lemmy is closer to communes than a unified social media, you shun those that don't follow social rules like feddit has done, no?
I'm in favor. Feddit has proven before this incident to be extremely Zionistic and Islamophobic as well.
I don't subscribe to any communities on that instance. If you defederate, I probably won't notice. If we can do anything that'll even make marginally better the lives of those who have gone through so much, I support what good we can do.
I only would agree with defederating if it's proven that they are blocking anti-genocide content on other servers from being visible to their users.
In general I believe that maintaining lines of communication with those who otherwise believe in reprehensible ideologies is best, both in order to better understand such backwards ideologies, and also to provide a lifeline back to consensus reality for people who've been swept up by them.
I also believe that in the majority of cases, users should wield the power to instance-block for themselves. Or at least, servers where this is the case are the ones I prefer to participate on.
However, if it becomes clear that feddit.org admins are censoring content external to their instance due to their support of Zionism, then my first objection becomes irrelevant, and the second would be questionable, given the efforts of admins to put external fedi content thru a pro-genocide filter. At that point, defederation would be both warranted and wise.
It is possible to be pro-Palestinian and anti-Hamas at the same time.
Similarly, it is possible to be pro-Jewish and anti-Israel at the same time.
They key is to be in favour of, and supporting, the innocent civilians that are NOT wielding hate and bigotry, and in direct and vociferous opposition to the power structures on BOTH sides that have looked true evil in the eye and said, “hold my beer and watch this”.
I am as anti-Hamas as I am anti-Israel. Both power/political structures are among the most reprehensibly evil orgs on the planet at this time.
I stand with the innocent civilians; with THE PEOPLE.
It is possible to be pro-Palestinian and anti-Hamas at the same time.
Hamas might be doing bad things, but there is no need to condemn Hamas in order to also criticise Israel. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Hamas exists and has the power it does because of Israel.
I dunno how many people have seen season 2 of Star Wars: Andor, but there's a part in that where the Empire funds rebels on a planet specifically because they want them to do terrorism so they have an excuse to come in and genocide the people. They want to manufacture consent for genocide, and while we don't see a lot of the broader public's reaction, it certainly seems to have worked.
That whole thing is literally taken directly from real-world conflicts, including this one. Netanyahu himself directly funded Hamas because he knew they were more extreme than other Palestinian organisations, and by doing that, he helped create the conditions where he can continue to escalate the genocide while the world sits by watching. Every person killed or otherwise harmed by Hamas is Israel's fault. And that's before you get into all the murders of children, doctors, and journalists done directly by Israelis.
In Star Wars, we side with the rebels even though sometimes they do terroristic things that cause innocent deaths. Why? Because they're rebelling against genocide. Once the genociders are wiped out entirely, we can talk about how a good government for the people should be run.
I don't "support" Hamas, but neither do I condemn them. I recognise them as the direct result of Israel's genocide. Effectively, another agent of the Israeli government. The only way to defang Hamas's actions is for Israel to pull back, unilaterally, to the 1948 borders and to provide massive aid in reparation to the civilians who they have harmed through the IDF, through West Bank settlers, and through Hamas. Terrorists thrive in injustice, and anything that doesn't fully call for Israel doing everything to cease the injustice is pissing in the wind.
I'm not pro-Hamas but I dislike Israel more because Hamas are fighting their captors. I can understand that. I believe if Palestine was granted statehood and equal rights, Hamas would cease operating. If it continued to operate, I would be anti-Hamas as much as I am anti-Israel. The power imbalance makes treating them with equal disdain irrational.
I believe if Palestine was granted statehood and equal rights, Hamas would cease operating.
Do you have evidence to support that hypothesis?
What I meant to ask was if there was any historical evidence of a violent rebel group actually giving up power when they win.
But you did respond to what I literally asked with evidence, so hard to argue with that.
This is not a violent rebel group, they are the government defending their home from foreign invaders. But the Vietcong and ANC are both no longer in power if you mean that.
Usually after violent revolution comes a few years of unrest. Stability does not come directly. But first the colonizers must be removed else that period will never be reached.
No. That's why it's a belief. That's also why I stated that if it turned out to be wrong, I would consider Hamas just as bad as Israel.
Fair enough. I just don't know of a case where a violent rebel group took over a government/land and then immediately dissolved.
If you oppose armed resistance against genocide you are pro genocide. It is that simple
If you are anti Hamas you are anti Palestinian. Because Hamas are the ones fighting against the occupation and genocide. Else you can pretend to be pro Palestinian by supporting the PA which is nothing more than an extension of Israel oppressing Palestinians.
But besides that, Feddit is straight up banning calls for Zionism to be abolished which is full undeniable pro-Zionism
Hamas =/= Palestine, Like Zionist facists =/= Israel or represent any Jewish person with a conscience.
They have killed innocent people just like the IDF has.
If you oppose armed resistance against genocide you are pro genocide. It is that simple
It's not quite that simple. Hamas is a deeply corrupt and counterproductive organization. Israel arranges funding for them and supports them against their political opposition, because having Hamas largely in charge of (edit: ~~Palestine~~) Gaza is often a disaster for the Palestinians, which Israel enjoys.
You can absolutely oppose Israel's genocide and also oppose Hamas's horrifying fig-leaf of "resistance" to that genocide which is mostly useless militarily, and just provides useful pretexts for Israel to do more genocide (not that they need them.)
Else you can pretend to be pro Palestinian by supporting the PA which is nothing more than an extension of Israel oppressing Palestinians.
This is where your argument goes from incomplete to bizarre. Why do you say the PA which Israel dislikes is an extension of Israel, while Hamas which Israel likes and supports (in between military operations) is an authentic resistance organization?
Israel props up Hamas because it knows it can get away with the terrorist framing to justify it's escalation of ethnic cleansing and apartheid to western powers. Israel regularly assassinates and imprisons more moderate leadership so that fundamentalist groups gain more prominence. This is the way Israel likes to justifies it's blockade, mowing the lawn, and divide Gaza/West Bank. If you think Hamas is being played by Israel, sure. But it's not like they have any option other than armed resistance. I can critisize their methods all I want, but at the end of the day, I'm not the one living in Gaza, I have no clue what it's really like living in those hellish conditions, I don't really know what I'd be willing to do to try to break free from the Zionist entity that has routinely bombed, imprisoned, tortured loved ones for generations in the largest open air prison on earth.
Hamas is a genuine resistance against Zionism, to say it's a fig-leaf of resistance implies that it is not a genuine opposition but just a front. There is plenty to criticize, but they are a genuine opposition. They have already agreed to give up governance, as long as a unified Palestinian leadership can take place (they've advocated for this as part of the peace deal since Oct 8th) and Hamas changes to a regular army under that leadership.
The PA is a fig-leaf of resistance because they directly work under Israel to violently suppress resistance against the settler colonialism and apartheid in the West Bank. The PA is Counter Insurgency (COIN) wielded by Israel to prolong the Apartheid and continue to delay any semblance of statehood. The PA is viewed by Palestinians nearly just as negatively as Israel because of that. They assist Israel's expansion and crack down on resistance. It's another arm of Israel's Apartheid apparatus
Israel props up Hamas because it knows it can get away with the terrorist framing to justify it’s escalation of ethnic cleansing and apartheid to western powers. Israel regularly assassinates and imprisons more moderate leadership so that fundamentalist groups gain more prominence. This is the way Israel likes to justifies it’s blockade, mowing the lawn, and divide Gaza/West Bank. If you think Hamas is being played by Israel, sure.
Absolutely agree with all of this.
But it’s not like they have any option other than armed resistance. I can critisize their methods all I want, but at the end of the day, I’m not the one living in Gaza, I have no clue what it’s really like living in those hellish conditions, I don’t really know what I’d be willing to do to try to break free from the Zionist entity that has routinely bombed, imprisoned, tortured loved ones for generations in the largest open air prison on earth.
Yeah. I get this... I'm not trying to sit in judgement of anyone in that situation. Maybe I overstepped my bounds in saying some of these things, that's fair. I'm just saying that "trying to break free" in a way which basically just plays into Israel's hands and gives them the pretext they were looking for to eliminate Gaza once and for all is not resistance, even if it feels like it is at the time.
What the Palestinians actually need is from someone from outside, from one of these powers that has more money, weapons, and size than Israel by 100 times over or more, to step in. And no one is, while they die like leaves in Autumn.
The PA is a fig-leaf of resistance because they directly work under Israel to violently suppress resistance against the settler colonialism and apartheid in the West Bank. The PA is Counter Insurgency (COIN) wielded by Israel to prolong the Apartheid and continue to delay any semblance of statehood. The PA is viewed by Palestinians nearly just as negatively as Israel because of that. They assist Israel’s expansion and crack down on resistance. It’s another arm of Israel’s Apartheid apparatus
Yeah, pretty much. What I'm saying is that Israel overpowers them both by so overwhelmingly much that neither of them is "permitted" to accomplish anything at all. Hamas is permitted to splinter the Palestinians politically, and to commit terrorism from time to time, not nearly enough to be a threat but enough to keep a lot of people (certainly a lot of Israelis) hating the Palestinians and providing a good pretext.
The PA I know less about, but if they are fully corrupted and complicit in Israel's oppression that would make sense to me.
You're not wrong about the Palestinians having no options at all. I don't even know what they are supposed to do.
Adi Callai does a great job explaining the PA and counter insurgency here in his video about The Gaza Ghetto Uprising, but the entire video and many others on his channel are well worth the watch
I also have a bunch of quoted articles about how the PA works under Israel to crack down on resistance in this comment
Reading Franz Fanon, Adi Callai has a video on him as well, really opened my understanding about the violence of resistance groups. Not that it justifies or trivializes those actions against civilians, that is of course unacceptable, but Fanon gives the context of the oppressed that me and many westerners cannot comprehend. Context about the unrelenting violence of the oppressors, of being against a far militarily superior force set on supremacy, of how armed struggle evolves as the oppression expands in scope and cruelty.
Hamas said to turn down $2B offer to disarm, relocate top commanders from Gaza
Israel doesn't dislike the PA. The PA works for Israel.
Same - and it's weird to see so many leftists immediately jump to unconditional support for Hamas, who are literally a reactionary, religious fundamentalist force and who have done horrible things towards Palestinian people.
Armed resistance to Israel does not negate its evils or its reactionary internal role.
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