this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
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A Boring Dystopia

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

The homeowners have two options, and both options suck.

  • sell
  • don't sell

Both alternatives carry costs. But they own a home worth 4.4mil and have to pay 2% of that each year. That's pretty low.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

Hmm. So if you buy a house in your 20s, by the time you retire, you would have bought the equivalent of 2.5 houses. One for you, one from the government for the privilege of living in the one you bought, and half a house worth of interest to the bank.

That's an insane amount of money.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

Okay I know it's not such a popular opinion but I'm still on the notion that you shouldn't pay taxes for holding on to the place that you live.

Yeah yeah local governments need income and all that and their house is assessed over 4 million dollars and many people can't even afford a home at a 10th of that and they should have known and blah blah blah but come on, commodified housing is bad enough. Paying what amounts to a rent to the state just to hold on to the property, actual repairs and upkeep and other naturally occurring costs aside is insane.

Tax the sales of property. Tax the legal transfer of control of LLCs that "own" property. I'm not even saying never charge property tax on properties not occupied by the owner, but you should be able to have a house to live in without paying the state for the privilege of them not taking it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

What home steading a home was supposed to be for. I remember in Texas you could homestead up to 10 arces and not have to pay taxes on that. I totally agree. At the very least taxes shouldn't go up just because the value did. Only time your taxes should go up unless you sell the home, then tax you that amount.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is similar to the property tax structure in California.

You get a property tax rate on the purchase price, then it only goes up 2% a year or inflation (whichever is lower).

It makes it pretty impossible to be taxed out of your house. It has downsides though because it applies to commercial real estate and landlord properties as well.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Why not tax the property for all value above X. Where X is some amount over the average or median property value. That way, if you can afford a luxury home you pay some tax on it.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You're planning to tax on events like sales and hope there's enough churn to still fully-fund the things property tax provides for? That's really hard to make a case for.

Given bungalows rarely deliver a town enough to recoup on providing and maintaining services anyway, you're starting with a very tricky goal to maintain. Detroit happened, and that was with consistent, recurring payments.

Then you want to put a home sales tax on that is big enough to pay the back taxes plus borrowing cost to hold the debt and you think people are gonna go for this? What if you've owned your home 15 years, paid no taxes on the infrastructure maintenance, ambulance fire or police service, mail service, street lights and pavement, and then your house burns down? You could very well owe more than the lot is worth alone. What do we tell the homeowner about that? The town can't absorb the loss given margins are so low.

Nah. I don't think you can sell that idea to the voters.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

What in the libertarian garbage is this? Do you like roads, schools, libraries, parks, garbage pickup, etc etc etc. Property taxes pay for these things.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

But those things do not scale with the (alleged) value oft the property, but with things like property size, number oft occupants, curb length etc. Or could even be billed at actual cost (your garbage example).

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Tax the sales of property.

I'm thinking of the untended consequences of that policy. The first I can think of is people simply would never sell their houses because they'd get hit with enormous taxes (large enough to equal decades of property taxes). Home owners would simply rent out the houses when they need/want to move away. So home ownership for those living in the homes would collapse. Further, city services would likely starve from lack of funding because there would be no little revenue and what revenue they got would be very sporadic.

but you should be able to have a house to live in without paying the state for the privilege of them not taking it.

There are absolutely houses like that (in the USA at least). Those houses not in cities with police and fire protection, roads, sidewalks, snow plowing, public libraries, or any other kind of city services. If you want the benefits of a society someone has to pay the bill. Alternatively, some cities have income taxes or very high sales tax. Both of which you'd pay to live in the city.

Who are you suggesting paying the bill for your consumption of city services besides you?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

Every think about downsizing?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It's always funny when looking at the tax-system in the US from an EU perspective. Americans looking at any receipt they get in an EU country and immediately pointing out the huge VAT tariff.

Then one only needs to point to the property tax in the US.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Sales taxes are regressive. People who spend more money on services and less on goods are typically wealthier. Sales taxes hit the poor the hardest. Whereas the property tax on a multi unit building is typically a better rate for each family than a single family home.

If you read the article these people tried to abuse a loophole that had kept their propery taxes capped for years and they failed miserably. They tried to keep just enough of the home to avoid the value of the home being reassessed for taxes. But they added an entire second story and that triggered the reassessment. Essentially they thought they could cheat and build more home than they could afford to pay for.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Which country doesn't charge VAT on services?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

These states in the US have zero sales tax: NH, OR, AK, DE, MT

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Some US states don't have sales taxes

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Debbie, who had worked for a real estate attorney for nearly 25 years

Lol, a real estate attorney didn't see this coming? I feel sorry for any clients of hers.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

She worked FOR a real estate attorney. And apparently learned nothing.

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