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The original version would have allowed a child support action at any time following conception, but the measure was amended to have such an action apply only retroactively after the birth within the time limit.
Weird, it's almost like there's a huge difference between a fertilized egg and a baby.
Any young buck reading this: If you have insurance, they'll usually cover vascectomy with a minimal co-pay. Do it. Contact your doctor, your insurance company, figure it out and do it. Yeah, it's a little weird having someone shave your junk, and you're achy for a few days after, but think about it. A lifetime of less stress and more money. Just do it. You'll thank me in your dotage.
Shave it yourself before the appt
They still have to shave it again at the doctor. My mom said she wished people wouldn't pre-shave surgical sites (she's a nurse, not just a weirdo offering to shave people for fun).
ETA: If your doctor tells you to shave before a procedure, do it. It's probably just a good bet in general to always follow whatever pre-op instructions you get from your specific provider because every doctor is different.
Why shouldn't we?
She said it just makes the skin more irritated because they have to go over it make sure there's no stubble, missed spots, etc, and shaving over freshly shaved skin is just kind of harsh. Especially in sensitive areas.
Fuck my doctor. He didn't mention prepping the area, so I didn't shave, figured they'd take care of it. Nope. Didn't shave, just cut then applied glue to my sack.
The glue on my hairy sack was the worst part of the whole experience, and it lasted for 2 weeks. I left feedback but it works have been a much better experience of they'd just told me to shave.
Holy shit. Apparently a lot of places don't do it there and will tell people to do it themselves a couple days before (not sure if it's practice to practice, doctor's preference, or what) but I've never heard of anyone just doing a vasectomy on hairy skin. That suuuucks.
Mine told me not to. Had a decent looking nurse take care of it beforehand. It was an odd, but not terrible experience.
I didn’t even have a co pay for mine.
Same. The whole thing was covered by insurance.
I think my co-pay was $20.
I second this. This is good life advice for pretty much any guy out there right now.
What about child tax credits for frozen embryos?
So this doesn't seem quite so extreme. It allows child support retroactively for the pregnancy period. Being pregnant can be quite expensive, especially without insurance. So having parents share the cost makes sense. We'll have to see how it pans out. Note it only can be utilized if child support is ordered within the first year after birth.
“I believe that life begins at conception,” Westerfield said while presenting the measure to his colleagues. “But even if you don’t, there’s no question that there are obligations and costs involved with having a child before that child is born.”
While I disagree with the premise, it's a fairly mild take and I agree with the latter.
Kentucky is among at least six states where lawmakers have proposed measures similar to a Georgia law that allows child support to be sought back to conception. Georgia also allows prospective parents to claim an income tax deduction for dependent children before birth.
Well at least Georgia is being somewhat consistent. But if these people truly believe in conception being the start of personhood, miscarriages should also convey personhood and tax breaks.
Make no mistake, this may seem reasonable on the surface, but it's a Trojan horse that anti-choice extremists are hoping to leverage so they can get another case in front of our extremist supreme court to argue that fetuses should get full protection under the 14th amendment, resulting in a full nationwide abortion ban. NPR recently released an article about this: How states giving rights to fetuses could set up a national case on abortion
if these people truly believe in conception being the start of personhood, miscarriages should also convey personhood and tax breaks.
They should get paid bereavement leave
I don't know if you mean this ironically but parents of a miscarried fetus really should get bereavement leave. It's extremely traumatic and would take time to recover from.
This sure seems like a step towards a personhood bill. Which is exactly what Republicans want
Just to be devils advocate, while a law like this doesn't seem bad, yay social programs, doesn't it sort of set up more precedent that a child is a child at conception? In turn making it harder to argue for abortion rights based on other existing laws like this one.
Abortion rights are based on the bodily autonomy of the woman, not the status of the fetus.
Even a fully grown adult cannot use another person's body without consent.
I'd say it sets a precedent that a child isn't a child until after birth. They don't want to pay the bill without proof of purchase. Fuck these vermin.
They generally can't determine paternity until after birth. That is why its a retroactive assessment.
You can get a prenatal paternity test as early as 7 weeks however it is very expensive and most likely not covered by insurance.
I'd actually agree if our family court system wasn't so broken and sexist. But I'm also apart of the unpopular minority that believes that if women can opt out of having kids by having an abortion men should be able to opt out of paying child support.
Honestly none of this would really be an issue if healthcare was universal like it should be. It's essentially treating a knife wound with a band-aid
Sex carries risk and if you willingly ejaculate into a woman then you willingly risk being a father. Use birth control and don't sleep with pro lifers. You can"t opt out after the fact because you're not the pregnant one, it's pretty simple and the men whining about would be better served by demanding better birth control for men than trying to punish women.
If you could opt out if child support no one would pay. That's a bad idea.
If you are a man, and don't want to have a pregnancy, there is no way to "opt out". Now I agree with you entirely, however I understand where he is coming from as well. As far as I know, the father does not have a say in whether or not a child is born, however you can easily argue that you probably shouldn't put yourself in that situation if its such a worry.
Yes there is. Use a condom.
You could say the same thing about abortions. If a father wants to be a father, they'll be a father. If a father has no say in whether or not a woman can abort a baby, they should have a say in whether or not they want to raise it.
One more gentle nudge towards only stupid people reproducing.
But that’s probably the conservative goal. Playing the long game, expanding their base.
I think this is the wrong way to frame it. Really, it will come down to people with a strong enough upbringing to understand their choices. A lot of people have children because they didn’t have good guidance from adult figures in their lives, it’s not because they’re stupid. A lot of those folks are just poor.
My dude, they are forty years into the long-term plan. It’s going really well
'Only stupid people reproducing' rhetoric unfortunately is veeeery close to eugenics talking points
Not at all. Everyone should be entitled to a safe, healthy life no matter their traits or attributes. Restricting people's reproductive choices is insidious and people can't be trusted to do it properly, even if there was a 'fair' way to do it. It doesn't stop conservatives from constantly doing just that, though.
What I am getting at is, the more stupid laws that get passed to 'punish' people for having sex, the more people on the end of the spectrum that have good critical thinking skills will choose to delay or avoid having kids in that place that's making the stupid laws. It's strictly about incentivizing behavior through policy.
That's all true and fair. And I'm certain that's part of the plan of Republicans. That doesn't mean we have to also think the way they do about it. It creates a narrative of reproduction of certain people being less desirable as that of others. While that doesn't restrict those people's reproductive rights per se, it creates an ethical conundrum about who should and shouldn't reproduce. Again, I'm sure rightists believe those things, but aren't we above that? It also reinforces the narrative that things like rational thinking skills are genetic rather than the result of education or lack thereof, which is a wholly separate issue that also has to be solved. Can't we focus the discussion on this, simultaneously making sure more people realize what we perceive as intelligence is mainly an issue of education and not much of genetics?
That's all true and fair as well. But I think you're arguing against a point I wasn't trying to make. I never wanted to imply there was a 'should' group and a 'shouldn't' group. I don't believe the government (or the church) has any business in how many kids someone has. I do believe that laws like this add to the pile of reasons certain groups of people will delay or refrain from having kids at all. I know because I'm in that group.
The education part is a whole other conundrum, and you seem to feel that has a much bigger impact on the situation. I agree with you, if so. Access to a good education is the real equalizer in life, if you can say such a thing exists.
Great discussion!
Sorry I phrased it in a way that made it sound like YOU were saying certain groups should or shouldn't have kids. What I'm trying to say is that I personally feel like even just pointing out that something is making more 'stupid' people reproduce keeps the narrative of who should or shouldn't have kids alive, even if that's not the intention. I think we should try to let that narrative die. But yeah I think we agree about pretty much everything else. I know it's a big current problem that people delay or even refrain from having kids. And I find it quite heartbreaking, I'm very sorry you have to consider all this in your family planning.
All I'm trying to say is maybe we should consider how we speak about these issues, because prejudiced individuals and groups could read it like we're agreeing with their prejudice, which reinforces their prejudice. I hope I'm making sense? We're trying to say republicans are trying to keep the masses dumb, and by this we mean they like that those who can't access the education necessary to form critical thinking skills are having kids who also won't be able to access this education. But without this clarification, it could sound like we're saying that certain people having kids leads to a dumber population, which is good for rightists and bad for us. Am I being overly cautious maybe?
And yes, that is what what I was trying to say about education being a driving factor!
And yeah, I'm enjoying this discussion too!
Yup. That's why they ban books and cut funding for public education. They want uneducated people to keep voting for Republican candidates who put their own kids into private schools, and the cycle continues.
Definitely that, but it's a two birds thing. Their base is horribly ignorant, but they are not. They are 100% malicious. Not only do they get to control the rights of people they've never empathized with, they get to do exactly what you said over time.
