this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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I've been trying to find a good Marxist instance, but Lemmygrad and Hexbear are widely hated. Why is that? Are there any good leftist instances?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Liberals hate communists more than they hate fascists

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Liberals don't even really hate fascists, they just pretend to condemn them to keep up international appearances; as the past year's slippage, then shameless tearing-off of the mask has shown us. No one should be surprised by this, either-- the American way has always been clad in a pointy white robe, clutching a rifle in white-knuckled hands; if you peel back all the mythologizing.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If a communist isn't hated by the capitalist establishment, he isn't a real communist. (I do not imply that being hated by the establishment alone qualifies you to be a communist)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

And the remainder of lemmy is the capitalist establishment?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Lemmygrad and Hexbear aren’t “leftist” in the confused sense that Americans usually mean “leftist.” They’re actually leftist in the original sense, meaning that they want to abolish private ownership of the means of production. To the extent they’re “widely hated,” it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Any politically focused space on the Internet, left or right, is a cesspool of toxic lies and hatred of anyone outside their sphere

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

British. Immediately discarded.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

That's not the part people have an issue with, the part where their users deny genocides, call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis, end up being so "anti-racism" that they're racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks, that's what people have an issue with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Can you point to genocide denial before you make sweeping accusations?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Nope. Comment threads don't work like that.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Holy shit you got them to brigade your comment. They might as well be bots, I think Chat GPT's "intelligence" outpaces them.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

Wild how much footage is coming out of Gaza right now showing an actual ongoing genocide, yet Zionists and their water-carriers will harp on and on about how Israel is merely defending itself.

Nothing of the sort from Xinjiang. At all.

I'd like to see ONE verifiable image or video depicting this supposed Uyghur genocide we're denying. ONE. Apparently it's one of the worst human atrocities occuring right now. One of the worst in HISTORY.

So... show me a single picture. Fetish porn doesn't count. Where are the dead bodies? Where are these supposed mass graves?

Love to break it to ya, they don't fucking exist and they never did. You've been lied to.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves

lmao shut up ; settler tears are abundant in supply and abysmally low in both demand and quality

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (4 children)

end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves

anyone complaining about "reverse racism" or "anti white racism" is a complete joke. like boo fucking hoo, someone called you a cracker on the internet, get over it.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

their users deny genocides

If you are referring to the Xinjiang issue, then it just reaffirms what @[email protected] just said:

it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives

Because the "Uyghur genocide" in Xinjiang is another example of propaganda. Or do you really think the West cares about Muslims and want to protect their "freedom"?

call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis

I don't see anyone in Lemmygrad calling other people "Nazis" because they disagree with someone in a discussion. I usually see them criticizing others as "liberals." This is either a misrepresentation of leftists in general, very common among conservatives, or you are frequently being called a Nazi. I don't know, maybe that's on you? 🤔

end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks

That's so specific you should give at least one example of this. We have very strict moderation against any bigotry, so I challenge you to link any "racist" attitude or comment you have seen in Lemmygrad. I will give you 24 hours, and if you don't reply with an example, I will edit this comment saying you chickened out.

EDIT: They chickened out, as expected.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (12 children)

Another repeating problem is the vast generalizations. Treating "the West" as if they're all Bush Jr. or Reagan.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The “Uyghur genocide” is bullshit Atlanticist propaganda, and English-language Wikipedia is basically NATOpedia in its slant on the topic, so yes we will deny it. It’s a product of the new Cold War propaganda campaign against China.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children)

Here are some properties of any conspiracy theory worth it’s name:

  • Closed Ideological Systems: They provide an all-encompassing explanation for various events or states, with everything fitting into their worldview.
  • Immunity to Facts: Any contrary evidence is dismissed as false or considered part of the conspiracy.
  • Enemy Construction: They tend to draw a clear line between "us" (those who "know the truth") and "them" (the supposed conspirators).
  • Adaptability: Conspiracy narratives can change and incorporate new "evidence" or events to maintain their credibility.

It matches for QAnon and the MAGA crowd as well as the lemmygrad crowd.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

More often than not, when Americans say leftist they really mean left-liberalism a la Bernie Sanders, which is really center-left at most, and not actually leftist in the original sense, a sense which Americans have forgotten thanks to two Red Scares and the first Cold War.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Lemmygrad and Hexbear are cool. IDK why you wouldn't like them if you're a leftist.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I'm a leftist that doesn't like hanging with racists and totalitarians, that's why I don't like them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I don't think you even know what "totalitarianism" is. You know why? Because that term doesn't mean anything. It was popularized by Hannah Arendt, an academic author indirectly associated with the CIA (as thoroughly discussed by Frances Stonor Saunders in her book The Cultural Cold War). The term was used in the context of the Cold War to promote the idea that the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were the same thing or very similar. It served the interests of the US and Western European countries.

Now to call our userbase racist, I would expect at least further explanation. We have very strict moderation, and racist garbage is severely dealt with. So if you seen someone being racist in Lemmygrad, please let me know. I'm an admin there, and we could quickly resolve this. If you haven't, then you should quietly think with yourself why you are lying to others here. You hate us based on a lie?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Hexbear in particular has been annoying in the past with nonsense comments from users there, and so many unhelpful replies that are just a tiny animated image and nothing else. I'm not even sure they actually are leftist as much as just trolls a lot of times, so I've blocked the instance in general so that serious leftist conversations aren't being drowned out by that nonsense.

If it looks like someone from hexbear (such as yourself here) is making a real contribution then I'll reveal that comment and engage. It's a shame there are so many goofballs on that instance, apparently. Maybe their moderation has improved though?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

Not to mention that before federating, hexbear always had a soft aura of antisemitism floating around it. They've cleared house of it since but I remember wondering why they were so disproportionally vitriolic about Trotsky until I learned he was Jewish, then it all started to click.

Honestly I wouldn't even be remotely surprised if I found out in a couple decades that website was run as controlled opposition. Feels like everything there is designed to either placate or turn people away from communism rather than push them towards understanding it. Compare it to Lemmygrad where they'll reach a hand out to help reactionaries be less reactionary but on hexbear they just post a picture of a pig shitting on its balls and hurl harassing comments their way as if that's somehow going to make them any less anticommunist. (and as a fine bonus, all those comments boosts their reactionary bullshit to the top of the federation for everyone to see)

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I can't speak about lemmygrad since the instances I'm on all defederate from it, but Hexbear users have a reputation for being generally aggressive, grating, and immature. It's like that kid in class who keeps interrupting the teacher because they think they're funny and clever. e.g., some were screaming at me that I can't be an anarchist and I know nothing about anarchism since I'm married, replying with third-grade tier memes for some confusing reason

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Thought I should add it was them informing me that certain countries banning same-sex marriage while endorsing heterosexual marriage is just fine, actually. They espoused an objectively homophobic belief, and when I referenced my own marriage, they switched to calling me ignorant about anarchism. There are anarchist texts exploring the issue and some of the potential problems with traditions like marriage, but it's not dogma. Nor do I view my own relationship as hierarchical.

TL;DR They were being objectively homophobic.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well it's because they are Marxist.
In the Lemmy culture Marxism has a very bad name because almost religious overtones of its adherents.

Which is of ironically very much what Marx was warning against. But that's how it works right now.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I believe you've answered your own question.

Lemmy isn't Marxist-only. The majority of Lemmy users are what the more vocal Lemmygrad and Hexbear users deride as "libs." As a thought experiment, imagine that you are one of us for a moment and then browse Local on one of those.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Thought experiment; Don't be a lib.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I could tell you, but the last time I responded to a thread like this I got banned for a couple weeks because toxic political personalities aren't very tolerant.

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