Fuck Cars
This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.
This community exists for the following reasons:
- to raise awareness around the dangers, inefficiencies and injustice that can come from car dependence.
- to allow a place to discuss and promote more healthy transport methods and ways of living.
You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.
Rules
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Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.
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No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.
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Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.
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No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.
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No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.
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No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.
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No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.
Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.
My dad in a conversation with other parents:
"When I was their age, a car meant freedom. It meant you could take yourself to a place your friends were and your parents weren't, anytime you wanted. To them, the Internet means freedom, and they don't really see the point."
You know what true freedom is? Not requiring a car to get to places by having decently designed neighbourhoods where people can walk or cycle. For longer distances good quality transit could be available. No massive investment or lisence needed to travel.
For real, the amount of freedom I get here without a driver's license in the Netherlands is insane. I walk to the train station and can get anywhere in the country and even to a lot of other places in Europe.
Then I can just decide on a whim to walk to the grocery store, take a bike ride to visit my parents, go to a movie theater, whatever you can think of.
If there's one thing I have pride in with my country, it's the infrastructure we have. I find it very hard to imagine moving out of this country because of it.
I'm 31 and if I could never drive a fucking car again that'd be great 👍
Literally same. My entire life has been striving to build a life where I don't need a car. (mainly out of frustration with NJ's toxic surcharge program).
Sadly, no one in NY was hiring and my dumbass moved to Austin. Now my drive is to get back to NY where there actually is a hope of using public transit.
Exact same here. The amount of money cars cost is fucking ridiculous. I would pay more and wait longer to not have to deal with the bullshit of owning a car, but I can’t even do that because American public transit is worse than Mordor.
Ebikes will get you a good chunk of the way there in a lot of places. Other than that, if you live in a city then vote like hell and go to city council meeting as often as possible to demand bike lanes. Local voting actually matters and can change (some) things.
If you live in the country... Eh... Start sabotaging gas stations I guess? I don't even know where to begin with a constructive answer. Rural folks are basically forced in to cars and there isn't much to do about it without massive changes. In the Netherlands even small towns get train stations, but in the US and Canada and even a lot of Europe rural folks are just screwed.
At least here in Illinois rural towns have okay train access and can easily accommodate bike infrastructure. Many rural towns with a university have decent bike networks already. It's North American suburbs that are more hopelessly designed around private vehicles.
according to McKinsey. "And for those Gen Zers who decide that driving just isn't for them, they can keep themselves busy with TikTok in the passenger seat—or get behind the wheel in the metaverse."
Be a good consumer and accept our thought control.
The 'Get Behind the wheel in the metaverse' proves this article is absolute garbage, and just a fluff piece for Zuc the Cuck.
Who the fuck gets "behind the wheel in the metaverse"?
Mark Zucc, maybe a few investors' kids
Great question - but semi related, I really enjoy sim racing despite rarely driving a car in real life (maybe once a fortnight).
The metaverse doesn't appeal to me, or most people, but there's something to be said about jumping in VR and taking a car to a track virtually with a good force feedback wheel, nice load cell pedals and a H-pattern shifter.
Heck I even enjoy euro truck simulator from time to time.
If you're working from home then ubering everywhere is cheaper than insurance for a new driver and once you put gas plus the cost of the car into the equation I totally understand this.
I dropped driving 20 years ago. Way too expensive if you don't earn money with it in some fashion. I'm not a home-worker, but I live in a city. Having a car in a city... That just doesn't feel right. They should be used to bring stuff into a city. Cites should provide their own means of getting around. The few times when I actually needed a car, I rented one. Way cheaper than owning a car.
It's like owning a golf course to play golf once a week. Well. Something like that.
This is an easy thing to say, but ride-sharing apps price gouge ridiculously. Have you done the math on this for the average person's annual needs, or does it just "feel" true? Also I assume your groceries and other regular shopping needs are all getting delivered in this scenario, so need to work all the delivery overhead in annual costs as well. I wish we could get rid of individual cars, but not sure this adds up...
Also, curious on the reality of this in big cities versus more rural areas
If you live within 1 mile of a grocery store you could easily walk, and you don't need anything else on a regular basis. Use a bicycle and 5 miles becomes just as easy. People lived thousands of years without cars. The problem is our cities are built around cars, and they're built poorly because of it.
You could easily walk there, yes. But walking back again? With 15kg of groceries? That gets tiresome.
The fact that it feels tiresome is worrying me. That should feel like nothing. 15 kg is not all that much (initially wrote "a joke", didn't realize that might sound disrespectful to some), unless you are either 12, 92, or really out of shape.
Have you tried carrying what equates to a toddler by one hand for 3km? Them plastic bag carrying handle bits are going to be digging into your fingers, friend. These days it won't matter so much of course because the fingers will be frozen anyhow.
Frankly I haven't used a shopping bag for years because I prefer collapsible cases (approx 40x60 cm) but economically those are even worse to carry farth than, say, 50m.
I might be a bad example indeed. I carry a lot of things in often quite unusual ways. As a male Paramedic working inner-hospital shifts in a 3000 bed hospital complex, well, there is a lot to carry around. And most things don't have handles either; some resist.
I'm not good with cases, nor shopping bags. I use bags with long handles that I can hang from my shoulders. 12 kg per side won't even make themselves felt.
Boxes are good to carry to a car.
The talk was about 1 km though, not three I believe? I might be wrong.
Anyhow, a good knapsack with a solid bottom. Two bags with long loops. I can carry 35 kg like that easily. In basic training, we carried that load for 20 km and more.
When I got my new barbells recently, I rented a car. My bench and rack I had delivered.
Why would I carry my groceries in a plastic bag or a collapsible box when I can just use a backpack? I can easily carry 15kg in my backpack.
I mostly go shopping with my bike though. I have huge bags that attach to the carrier and that can fit about a week of groceries for two people. I can transport even more with my bike trailer if I need to.
You cooking for a whole gym or what?
You shop daily or what?
A couple of litres of milk, perhaps ditto soda, some canned goods and frozen items ... easily 10 kg. Then add buying in bulk when there's special offers.
If I lived about a mile I could shop daily. That's an effortless walk. On the occasion I buy heavy liquids, backpack or bicycle.
I and my brother did some math about cars.
We both work and have money for car but just insurance, technical and emissions control... is more expensive than public transport ticket (for one year in our city). And we didn't count in petrol and parking.
In short for us it just doesn't make economical sense to own one.
You could say Gen Z "chooses" a lot of things. Gen Z "chooses" not to buy houses (we can't afford them) Gen Z "chooses" to be mentally ill (not even 10 years ago, "autism" was just "the weird kid") Gen Z "chooses" to rent Gen Z "chooses" not to buy food Gen Z "chooses" to let climate change fuck the earth Gen Z "chooses" to not have kids (although here we actually don't want them, but also couldn't afford them) and so on.
Now hopefully they start voting in their local elections for politicians who will build transit, bike lanes, and support walkability.
We had a really promising, progressive city councillor run for Mayor who basically tanked their campaign by making investment in cycling infrastructure one of their main platforms.
So, instead, we got a business-as-usual developper friendly mayor who will continue to do nothing to address public transit issues, or improvr cycling infrastructure besides painting a few lines on busy roads.
I think the major issue is that most people see bike lanes as removing their choice to drive, rather than adding alternatives to make driving easier. These people pushing for change need to look at the MAYA ~~principal~~ principle, meaning they use the Most Advanced, Yet Acceptable vocabulary to ease in the transition.
Anyone who wants to platform for biking and making better urbanism needs to instead focus their campaign on being fiscally responsible and tackling traffic concerns. If pressed, they can say that there are lots of data showing that small, cheap changes to the road infrastructure can make a large impact in both traffics and taxes.
I'm right there with them. I spent 7-8 years in a larger city and enjoyed not having a car the entire time. No renting a parking spot or fighting over who gets to block in who with the upstairs or downstairs neighbors. No snow shoveling or scrambling to park on one side for street sweeping.
I'm now temporarily in a place where buses are at an hour interval and only go to 1 place so I took one of the family cars. Despite the car being "free" I'm paying more than an unlimited transit pass on insurance alone, and I have a great rate at the expense of having to let my insurance track my accelerating / braking through GPS/accelerometer (at least for a few weeks before I can uninstall the app and enjoy the lower rate). I've had to pay for an inspections, tags, fixing a tint that was legal at home but illegal where I am now (over $100 even if I just had them remove it), and I'm still needing to spend on extras like oil to top up in between oil changes, new wipers, coolant, and it's looking like it's almost due for tire rotations, brake and transmission flush, and other regular maintenance which is just another expense.
The car was free and it's so expensive still. I miss being able to hop on a bus and zone out too.
“Choosing” is doing some heavy lifting here when gen-z ain’t got no money.
Just like us millennials 'choosing' not to buy houses.
News in UK today said car insurance for young drivers is now £3000 a year on average ($4000USD)
What? That's in no way sustainable.
Exactly the point of this post
Yup, at UK minimum wage 17 year olds would have to work 9 hours a week just to pay for car insurance. Then there is road tax, fuel, MOT, repairs, and buying the car in the first place.
Yes. Owning a car is a constant expense. For something that gets used a small percent of the day.
I rent if I ever need a car. The rent by-the-minute schemes near me include charging or fuel, insurance and everything for ~25ct/minute. Ideal for local trips with passengers. Otherwise I bike everywhere in Munich.
You speak of "heavy lifting" without reading the article explaining in part how the economy may be impacting these choices.
Choosing not to drive then is an incorrect headline whereas unable to afford driving would be more accurate.
Agreed. Moreover, I'd like some more insight in the consumer patterns of Gen Z. A pie chart would be nice including groups like eduction, healthcare, subscription services, entertainment, etc.
I have a feeling, without the data, that a lot of young people are spending way more on novelty and entertainment things than ever before while they're complaining about not being able to afford things.
Everything I've seen has said that Millenials and younger are spending more on experiences and less on things, but also that their purchasing power is much weaker than their parents' was at the same age. Millenials, I think, have about half the purchasing power as the Baby Boomers did in their 30s and 40s.
Also of note that I just saw the other day is that the price of cars has jumped up about 30% since 2021.
So, not exactly what you're looking for, but some of the stuff I've seen/heard that probably plays contributing factors to this.
I think being priced out of the housing market influences a lot how likely you are to spend your money on experiences. It seems like that's all young people can afford, the mortgages these days are daunting even for people much older in good positions.
Because it's expensive and sucks if you live in a city. Also, most can't afford a house out in the suburbs anyways.