I would separate those all together. I think there’s should be a distinct line between the two. If they have you install special software. You need to make the split right away. You don’t want them to spy on you.
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What was the barrier between LibreOffice/OpenOffice and 365? I know there's something that just doesn't translate right, but I can't really remember what, tbh. If I was faced with the same problem, I think I'd just dual boot. Windows for work, Linux for play.
That solution is tantamount to smacking it with a club these days, but I haven't taken the time to familiarize myself with VMs yet. Honestly, its in my list of skills to learn along things like Docker. The future seems to be moving in that direction and I'm lagging behind.
The office format or something else?
About the format; OOXML (.docx etc.) was "standardized" (whole drama here) in reaction to standardization of ODF. But that "standard" relies mostly on proprietary extensions and MS reprtedly doesn't fully keep to it anymore, causing repeatedly issues with formating in everything else aside MS Office/365.
Some more details here.
This is exactly what I was looking for. The more I read it, the angrier I get. The fact that something as simple as a text document format can be force standardized, monopolized, and overcharged for is ludicrous. All because of a proprietary extension loophole.
Thank you for the info.
I might be daft (Mac for desktop use, Linux for servers), but do they not run with Wine?
Office 365 running on Linux using Wine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCfQzQI6HAw
I've never heard of Winapps so did a quick google. Their repository has not been updated in 5 years so it looks abandoned. Probably a bad idea to use it. https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps
The winapps link in my post says it is a hard-fork of the one you linked to (and my one has updates as recent as yesterday). So it isn't abandoned.
Either use qemu to run Windows in a VM, so you can run Office there, or use OnlyOffice, which is a free office app that has the best compatibility with MS office formats (better than libreoffice's). Wine, winapps etc won't work well.
Is there a reason why you've suggested qeumu in particular for the VM? (winapps suggests two different VM options)
I've never heard of OnlyOffice before. The wikipedia page seems to imply that they are web-apps; and the OnlyOffice website talks about pricing for businesses and personal severs or something, listing team collaboration features. So I'm not yet entirely sure exactly what OnlyOffice is - but I suspect it isn't really what I'm looking for.
Qemu/kvm is the default way of running a VM on Linux. Virtualbox or winapps or vmware are secondary options.
Onlyoffice is a newer kid on the block compared to libreoffice/openoffice. Yes, it's web based but it operates as if its a native app. It works well, and it has very good Ms office compatibility. So definitely download its .appimage and try it out. You don't lose anything to try it out. It's super easy to run: you download the appimage, you right click on the file to go to its properties and make it executable, and then you can run it. Test it with your files to make sure it supports them well.
Fair enough. Thanks for the info.
In my experience winapps doesn't work well enough to use for work. I had almost constant issues with it.
I struggled like you for a long time until I found a happy medium. I have a folder on my C:
drive called utilities. It's been added to the %PATH%
. In it, I have eget with a config for all my utilities for making Windows easier to use. I also have BusyBox for Windows.
It emulates a good 90% of *nix utilities without having to deal with WSL (older environments) or doing anything extensive to your environment (corporate laptop friendly). I recommend you at least give it a try and see if it works for you.
Here's my ~/.config/eget.toml
❯ cat eget.toml
[global]
github_token = ""
quiet = false
show_hash = false
upgrade_only = true
system = "windows/amd64"
["sharkdp/fd"]
asset_filters = ["gnu"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\fd.exe"
["nojima/httpie-go"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\ht.exe"
["schollz/croc"]
asset_filters = ["64bit", "Windows7" ]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\croc.exe"
["BurntSushi/ripgrep"]
asset_filters = ["pc-windows-gnu", "^sha256"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\rg.exe"
["go-task/task"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\task.exe"
["vamolessa/verco"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\verco.exe"
["ajeetdsouza/zoxide"]
asset_filters = ["msvc"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\zoxide.exe"
["ducaale/xh"]
asset_filters = ["msvc"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\xhs.exe"
["casey/just"]
asset_filters = ["msvc"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\just.exe"
["sxyazi/yazi"]
asset_filters = ["msvc"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\yazi.exe"
["Dundee/gdu"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\gdu.exe"
["charmbracelet/skate"]
asset_filters = ["x86_64", "^json"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\skate.exe"
["charmbracelet/gum"]
asset_filters = ["x86_64", ".zip", "^json"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\gum.exe"
["Wilfred/difftastic"]
asset_filters = ["msvc"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\diff.exe"
["zyedidia/eget"]
asset_filters = ["zip", "amd64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\eget.exe"
["sharkdp/diskus"]
asset_filters = ["gnu"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\diskus.exe"
["fastfetch-cli/fastfetch"]
asset_filters = ["zip"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\fetch.exe"
["junegunn/fzf"]
asset_filters = ["zip"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\fzf.exe"
["orf/gping"]
asset_filters = ["zip"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\gping.exe"
["jqlang/jq"]
asset_filters = ["amd64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\jq.exe"
["caarlos0/jsonfmt"]
asset_filters = [".tar.gz"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\jsonfmt.exe"
["lsd-rs/lsd"]
asset_filters = ["pc-windows-msvc.zip"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\lsd.exe"
["ouch-org/ouch"]
asset_filters = ["gnu"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\pack.exe"
["SpatiumPortae/portal"]
asset_filters = ["x86_64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\pack.exe"
["rclone/rclone"]
asset_filters = ["amd64", "zip"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\rclone.exe"
["upx/upx"]
asset_filters = ["win64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\upx.exe"
["mcmilk/7-Zip-zstd"]
asset_filters = ["x64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\7z.exe"
["facebook/zstd"]
asset_filters = ["win64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\zstd.exe"
["yt-dlp/yt-dlp"]
asset_filters = ["yt-dlp.exe"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\yt-dlp.exe"
["aria2/aria2"]
asset_filters = ["win", "64bit"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\aria2c.exe"
["restic/restic"]
asset_filters = ["windows", "amd64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\restic.exe"
["Beastwick18/nyaa"]
asset_filters = ["windows", "exe"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\nyaa.exe"
["walles/moar"]
asset_filters = ["windows"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\moar.exe"
["alecthomas/chroma"]
asset_filters = ["amd64", "windows"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\chroma.exe"
["charmbracelet/glow"]
asset_filters = ["x86_64", "^json"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\glow.exe"
["arsham/blush"]
asset_filters = ["windows", "zip"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\blush.exe"
["nushell/nushell"]
asset_filters = ["pc-windows-msvc.zip"]
file = "nu.exe"
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\nu.exe"
["owenthereal/ccat"]
asset_filters = ["windows-amd64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\ccat.exe"
["FiloSottile/age"]
asset_filters = ["windows-amd64.zip", "^proof"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\age.exe"
["Owloops/updo"]
asset_filters = ["Windows_x86_64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\updo.exe"
["mr-karan/doggo"]
asset_filters = ["Windows_x86_64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\dog.exe"
["aandrew-me/tgpt"]
asset_filters = ["amd64", "exe"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\llm.exe"
["8LWXpg/ptr"]
asset_filters = ["x86_64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\ptr.exe"
["astral-sh/ruff"]
asset_filters = ["pc-windows", "msvc", "x86_64"]
target = "C:\\Utilities\\exe\\ruff.exe"
It's nice because you can update everything by running eget --download-all
.
In my experience winapps doesn’t work well enough to use for work. I had almost constant issues with it.
That's a disappointing to hear - but it's exactly the experience I hoped to avoid myself by asking about it. So thank you!
Your setup for getting nice *nix stuff on Windows sounds good, but for me it isn't so much that I want to use *nix stuff but rather that I want to avoid Windows stuff. For example, today I got a popup notification from Microsoft suggesting that I should install an xbox app. ... I said 'no', and quickly disabled those kinds of suggestions. Easy - except that I've disabled various 'suggestions' in Windows countless times. Its a constant chore keeping up with new anti-features constantly being added. So that's really what I'm trying to avoid.
For example, today I got a popup notification from Microsoft suggesting that I should install an xbox app.
Ahh! If that's the case you've come to the right place! I've been begrudgingly using Windows for 2 decades and I've found two utilities that help you disable 99% of that nagware.
Using these 2 applications you can basically gut Windows down to nothing. You can also use Windows Update Blocker to completely disable Windows Update, so features aren't added or re-enabled without you knowing about it. Make sure you enable "protect services settings!" This breaks winget
, but I just pull the wub.exe up, enable updates, use winget
, then re-disable updates. Only takes a second.
Doing this will completely change your Windows experience.
If you want to get even more crazy, you can do Windows 10/11 IoT which is a version of Windows designed for embedded devices (which still has windows enterprise level features, including telemetry disabled by default) which comes without a significant portion of the bullshit you get with consumer versions of Windows. Typically, you can selectively enable or install things it doesn't have if you end up needing them, but I've never run into any issues.
If you wanna give it a try you can download Windows 11 (26100.1742) IoT here, or Windows 10 (22H2) IoT here.
completely disable Windows Update
Since this is a work thing, I'd maybe check with whomever is in charge of your shit that you're not violating any compliance shit by turning updates off.
If you're not, cool, then whatever, but compliance bullshit is awful and sucks and it's better if you're not the reason you fail an audit.
What i did for work stuff that needs windows is i got an old Thinkpad T440S and put windows on that and just use it for work. Things worth like 50$ lol.
All the Office suite has browser based versions. Why would you even bothering to install them?
Regardless, they will work just as well on a VM under Linux as they would on Windows.
I'd prefer not to rely on browser based versions if I can help it. (I don't like having a weird hybrid of browser UI and app UI. Also, the browser versions are not as responsive, and are not feature-complete.)
A virtual machine is the move, I've had a great experience with virt-manager. Strongly recommend debloating the windows VM if Microsoft is getting on your nerves. Here's my go to software: https://github.com/raphire/win11debloat
Worksorks on both windows 10 & 11. It'll allow you to remove telemetry, tracking, and even software Microsoft prevents you from uninstalling. I just can't get it to remove Edge. But MentalOutlaw has a fantastic walk through of the process on his YT channel if you want some guidance with the debloating process.
The browser based apps really don’t feel like alternatives. Scrolling in Excel 365 is particularly painful and it doesn’t seem to have the full range of functions and graph creation tools etc
I keep forgetting that's a thing.
I've been using LibreOffice since switching to Linux and that's working plenty fine for me. But I'm a one-man business with nobody else to please so 🤷♂️
Also 90% issues people say they have with Libre Office making docs look weird is is fonts. Unless you are power pivot master Libre Office covers all you need.
I'd be happy enough to move to Libre Office exclusively; except that I need to be able to collaborate with others who are using MS Office - and that's a battle I don't really want to fight right now.
That's what I'm saying at this point if you update to use default windows fonts you can save docx files no problem the formatting will be 99% there
Maybe so, but then there's still Excel and OneNote.
Regarding OneNote in particular, I'm not using that for any collaborative work; but I do have extensive notes and useful past work there. I reckon OneNote is pretty good - but I regret using it now because of the lock-in effect. And there doesn't seem to be any Linux analogue at all. (What I need is xournal++ integrated into Joplin. I sometimes fantasize about trying to hack that together myself; but that's just a dream really.)