this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2025
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(page 2) 32 comments
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 days ago (7 children)

M-Disc/Archive Blue ray discs are currently pretty much unrivaled if one needs WORM(write once read many) storage for important data.

Anything cloud is an issue in that regards, while a few options exist that somewhat imitate WORM to comply with regulations they are often expensive, harder to maintain and, if long term storage is required, prohibitivly expensive.

The next option, Tandberg RDX needs a far less popular writer, it's WORM media is far more expensive, far more sensitive towards exterior influences and it's much harder to make sure you will be able to read the data in 20 years.

LTO is nice, the tapes are somewhat cheap but the drives are extremely expensive - far to expensive for smaller businesses or consumers.

(And please for the love of god, normal exterior HDs,etc. are NOT backup media for long term storage, especially not WORM- which is important in times of ransomware attacks)

So in the end verbatim would be an absolute idiot to destroy this market. I work with a lot of smaller healthcare facilities and they all exclusively work with them - they routinely burn their data on a M-Disc that is then stored in a secure location, as they all need to provide their patient records for at least 10, mostly for 15, in some cases for 30 or more years. The doctors can literally go to jail if they do not comply with that.(And getting hacked or your building burning down is not an excuse)

As a CEO of a small company we also need to retain certain tax and accounting data for 10 years, some for 20 years. And even as a individual I have some stuff I legally must retain for 10 years.

And of course photos of important life events and some documents (insurance, mortgage) are also something I don't want to loose if the house burns down. Therefore the important stuff gets burned to a M-Disc three times a year and then locked into a bank vault quite a bit away.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

Verbatim is doing more than just keeping the formats on life support – it also unveiled new hardware at CES 2025. Its Slimline Blu-ray Writer lets you back up 4K video to Ultra HD Blu-ray and even comes bundled with antiquated Nero disc burning software.

This is the important part imo, given that LG and Sony both pulled out of the USB Blu-ray reader-writer market

https://www.verbatim-europe.com/en/blu-ray-writers/products/external-slimline-blu-ray-writer-43890

Means we'll be able to rip Blu-ray's into the future. At least, that's what I hope. Need to check there are cracks for these writers.

EDIT: Won't link to it here, but many Verbatim writers, UHD and otherwise, use Pioneer hardware internally and are therefore crackable.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

Verbatim for the win

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Can someone tell me, why weren't optical discs (mechanically, ergonomically) designed similarly to floppies? In a protective envelope with a window.

Sony PSP discs had something like that. More expensive and impractical from looks, the window part was always open and cleaning it from dirt is inconvenient if untouched for long. But then the cover for that window wouldn't break off, and the looks solve the problem of "looking obsolete" that arises with clueless baboon crowds. Sony engineering back then somehow evokes feelings in me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'd guess because they already had a protective layer in the plastic they're made from. At least enough to protect during actual use, and not infants scattering them all over the floor.

I can't say I've ever lost a disc to physical damage.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

CD-ROM discs came in caddies early on. They weren't popular with consumers I would guess. MiniDiscs were designed with a protective caddie.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

MicroDisc also was like a floppy.

And IIRC, that format was also a Sony thing. They were always small tho, and had less capacity.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Og CDs came in a protective case like that, as did some large optical discs. But I guess it was just cumbersome and needlessly expensive to make the hardware?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Turned out that scratches can easily be avoided if you are careful, and - more importantly - a few scratches won't prevent the disc being read, thanks to the error correction.

Back in the day I remember using one of those AOL internet sign-up junk discs as a drinks coaster, for several years. As you'd expect from grinding around on my desk it was filthy and scratched to total hell, never mind the thermal stress of hundreds of hot tea mugs being sat on it. I'd never seen a CD looking so bad.

One day out of curiosity I decided to wipe it off and put it in the PC to see what would happen. I was genuinely surprised when the AOL splash popped up (and also a little disgusted because I had no love for AOL and was hoping I'd killed it)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 days ago

A few won't. I have a disc that looks as if it was tested with hot needles many times just for fun.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I did get a ~128 micro sdxc (micro center branded) for free, so, im kinda on the fence, but wont mind rocking a cd player again!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (4 children)

~128 micro sdxc (micro center branded) for free

How bad is it, Class 4 perhaps?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

So we should still buy all the MD and MiniDV tape we can get our hands on though

[–] [email protected] 92 points 3 days ago (12 children)

https://www.verbatim.com.au/products/m-disc-bdxl-100gb/

100 GB, and a lifespan of hundreds of years, it's hard to top that.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

500gb for ~100 US dollars is not bad* (just saw it is AU). I don't think I'd ever need something quite so long lasting and will we even watch or interact with media the same way in like 40 years? Movies and screens may get phased out for holo or something no ones even dreamed of yet.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Not sure where you're from, but that website link is Australian and $150 AUD is about $94 USD at the moment.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 days ago (3 children)

If the burner is cheap enough, or you can borrow one, backing up family photos in a way that will be viewable in hundreds of years time would be worth it to me.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I would not even be confident that the disc would be readable in 50 years' time except by certain archivists or hobbyists.

There are so many hours of music people wrote on Amigas or Atari STs that are just floating around out there on floppy discs that are still readable, but only by a very small number of people, so they will never be heard again, and it's been only 30 years.

Another example- right now I have family movies my parents took back in the 60s on Super-8 films. Super-8 isn't exactly impossible to play, but why would I get a Super-8 projector and a screen just to watch those even though they're watchable? That would be both cost- and space-prohibitive. Thankfully, I had them digitized a long time ago.

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[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

I have like 3 pictures I actually care about anymore I'd be more than willing to delete the rest. My parents have always taken like at least a dozen pictures every time we "do something" and I always have to ask... Why drop everything you are doing for a picture that you will, in all likelihood, never look at again. I'd much rather just enjoy the moment tbh

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Because in 20 years your memory will be lost. But you'll run across the photo and it will be incredible. It will both remind you and fill in the gaps that your memory lost.

I have all the best photos of my kids printed every year into a photo album. I don't trust digital despite having 3 copies. My 100 year azzo verbatim DVDs kept in black cases in the basement went bad after 10 years. Mdisc on paper should actually last 100 unlike azzo but I don't trust it either.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

What exactly happened to the DVDs in the basement? That's really interesting, indeed DVDs also claimed 100+ years of life span, but as you can see that's only the theoretical maximal in perfect conditions, which don't exist in real life, and the same thing happened to your DVDs can happen to Blu-Ray disks too

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

M-Discs are not like standard Blu-rays, they were designed specifically for long-term archive storage. If you follow the link at the top of this thread you can get some more detailed information on them. They're supposed to last several hundred years, but of course no one has empirical evidence of that yet.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Ooo I see! That's awesome!

Yeah unfortunately we don't have hundred-years data on them lmao but at least it would still be interesting to see how examples of such disk go as years and decades go by :p

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[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

That might be the case, but I haven't cared about taking photos for over 25 years, not sure having kids or losing all my memories would change any of that.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

lol I don't think you're the target demographic if you can't imagine any scenario of this having a good purpose to exist. It's apparently rated by the Department of Defense, definitely has some applications people are interested in. Hell, you could recoup costs on harddrive failures alone over your child's lifetime, just need a reader. Would be a pretty neat present to give someone as well filled like a photo album with personal media/ favorite games/ music/ whatever you want backed up for your kids. People spend a lot of money on multiple backup options so this is just another ace in your deck along with other safeguards.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

True, I'm no data hoarder. Just seems like it's a very small niche that this fits into. Never had a hard drive fail on me, but I'll give it a couple more decades lol

[–] [email protected] 56 points 3 days ago

Mine usually have the life span of 1 toddler encounter

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

Who is going to keep making Minidiscs though?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago

I have a stack of Verbatim blanks I bought years ago just in case they ever stopped being sold; I’ve actually used quite a few to create daisy disks and audio CDs.

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