Glad I have lemmy and sharkey in these trying times
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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Technology
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sincerely considering spinning up a sharkey instance as a tumblr alternative because fuck tumblr
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So after banning adult content a few years ago, Tumblr decided to shoot itself in the other foot? It feels like the people in charge are actively trying to drive off the site's users.
Fun fact, it's been two different groups of people in charge! Yahoo! was responsible for removing adult content and then sold it to Automattic for pennies on the dollar. Automattic then went through several rounds of different poor moderation before the CEO himself stepped up to share GDPR violating information on Twitter. Now we're adding AI!
For any Tumblr users here, this has already rolled out completely unannounced and is opt-in by default. You need to manually opt out, which can only be done on the desktop website. Odds are good that your data is already being sold to Midjourney and used to train their models.
To do so, click on your blog on the sidebar, click on Blog Settings on the other sidebar on the right, scroll down to the Visibility section, and turn the "Prevent third-party sharing for [your blog]" toggle to ON, not off. If you have any sideblogs, you'll need to manually do this for each of them as well. It's per blog and not account-wide.
Not bad that you can opt out though, I don't think reddit will give people an option
Wouldn't that be illegal in Europe with GDPR and other consumer protection laws?
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I was able to do it from the app and it was already on. I don't remember turning it on, so it might be default?
Edit: Just remembered that I did update the app today, so you might need to do that first.
I hadn't logged in a while and it was on, weird
I mean, I'll take that as a good point in Tumblr's favor.
it's also at blog settings > visibility on desktop
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It stinks that what seems like the most critical reporting lands behind paywalls.
Class actions need to be made. Not just against AI, but Facebook, Google, Microsoft, banks... Basically anyone who collects data for profit while slipping it in as a secondary transaction in the terms and conditions, without providing any consideration.
The data brokerage industry is a $400bn industry, yet there are only 8bn people in the world. Even if we assume everyone is online and everyone's data is of equal value (both are far from true), that means an individual's data is worth at least $50 per year on the market. These are just people buying and selling data, and does not include companies that keep proprietary datasets and only sell advertising, or the value of peoples' written works online (which is likely of even greater value). Businesses are now selling off our copyrighted work for far less than its worth, all the while not paying the creator their rightful dues.
It simply isn't the case that data is traded for access to the website or service. That isn't how the transaction is presented. Front and centre, the services are offered free of charge (or sometimes, eg with Microsoft, you already pay for the service) and then a second transaction is buried in the fine print in obscure language. The entire purpose of this is deception, so the user does not understand the value they are giving up, and so as to deny them a fair opportunity to assess any supposed value exchange - because it isn't an exchange, you're giving it up for free, just like they give you access for free. It's two separate transactions deceptively run parallel.
You can't build a car without paying for the nuts and bolts. They steal the nuts and bolts we produce and then sell them on as their own products.
Edit: weird formatting issues from posting with low signal.
I agree completely, it is ridiculous and should be stopped immediately, but I don't see a way this problem can be fixed. EU is trying, for example after GDPR all these cookies became horrendously annoying. What you're suggesting will lead to clearer and possibly lengthier EULA or TOS documents but in essence we would still have to either agree with them or not use that service. While a lot of open source and self hosted options exist to replicate many of the services, but you can't rely yet on that for everything.
You can sure as hell double down on strict privacy settings and use a lot of privacy friendly options like librewolf, mull, private dns, nextcloud, matrix/jabber, VPNs, immich, better search engines, Open street maps, and OSes like arch and Graphene.
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I don't know what Train AI Tools are, but I'd be ok with them if they had the temperament of Thomas the Train rather than Blain the Mono. How do we know which Train AI is buying our data?
Blaine is a pain, and that’s the truth.
@alyaza Freaking hell, is there any more mainstream social media platform left that does not and does not plan to sell your data to an AI already?!? *sigh*
Why wouldn't they?
This is the thing about your personal data; once it's out there you're never getting it back or removing it.
@helenslunch Heh, I beg to differ about removing, I'd sure want it removed from time to time, don't know what they're thinking.
Just that when I originally signed up for these services, I did it not with the intent of feeding data to a piece of software that would fundamentally influence our decisions.
But hey, tech companies gotta tech company...
You don't have to tag me. I can see it when you reply to me.
I'd sure want it removed from time to time
What you want and reality are unfortunately not the same thing.
A lot of ActivityPub software that federates with Lemmy does that tag thing automatically; like Mastodon, for example.
I know they do but it makes zero sense and is really annoying. Much like character limits.
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@helenslunch I am not tagging you, it is automatically tagging you, sorry.
What you want and reality are unfortunately not the same thing.
Wish they were...
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It should be illegal for the company to own user-generated contents. They should at least pay the users.
They're giving you services in exchange for your contents.
Does nobody even think about TOS any more? You don't have to read any specific one, just realize the basic universal truth that no website is going to accept your contents without some kind of legal protection that allows them to use that content.
You pay for WordPress.com though. That’s crazy to offer a paid service and use that data in AI training.
Hardly. They earn money by being paid by their users, but they can earn more money by being paid by their users and also selling their users' data. The goal is more money, so it makes sense for them to do that. It's not crazy.
From the WordPress Terms of Service:
License. By uploading or sharing Content, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, and non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, distribute, adapt, publicly display, and publish the Content solely for the purpose of providing and improving our products and Services and promoting your website. This license also allows us to make any publicly-posted Content available to select third parties (through Firehose, for example) so that these third parties can analyze and distribute (but not publicly display) the Content through their services.
Emphasis added. They told you what they could do with the content you gave them, you just didn't listen.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across harsh here, but I'm seeing this same error being made over and over again. It's being made frequently right now thanks to the big shakeups happening in social media and the sudden rise of AI, but I've seen it sporadically over the decades that I've been online. So it bears driving home:
- If you are about to give your content to a website, check their terms of service before you do to see if you're willing to agree to their terms, and if you don't agree to their terms then don't give your content to a website. It's true that some ToS clauses may not be legally enforceable, but are you willing to fight that in court? If you didn't consider your content valuable enough to spend the time checking the ToS when you posted it, that's not WordPress's fault.
- If you give someone something and they later find a way to make the thing you gave them valuable, it's too late. You gave it to them. They don't owe you a "cut." Check the terms of service.
While you’re not wrong, the social contract we’ve adapted to is that paying means you have some sense of ownership. It’s unreasonable to expect folks to read every Terms of Service with their legalese. Perhaps the new reality we need to accept is that there is no such thing as a good actor on the internet.
Well, a large part of my frustration stems from the "I've seen this for decades" part - longer than many of the people who are now raising a ruckus have been alive. So IMO it's always been this way and the "social contract we've adapted to" is "the social contract that we imagined existed despite there being ample evidence there was no such thing." I'm so tired of the surprised-pikachu reactions.
Combined with the selfish "wait a minute, the stuff I gave away for fun is worth money to someone else now? I want money too! Or I'm going to destroy my stuff so that nobody gets any value out of it!" Reactions, I find myself bizarrely ambivalent and not exactly on the side of the common man vs. the big evil corporations this time.
I don’t really disagree with you at all but repeatedly reminding us all that you’re “not surprised” isn’t the savvy commentary you think it is. Especially since it’s historically been the case that any service you pay money to has said “no, you own your content”.
The marker has just moved gradually on this with companies slowly adding more ownership clauses to their Terms of Service in ways that aren’t legible to average consumers. Now they’re cashing in on that ownership.
I'm just venting, really. I know it's not going to make a real difference.
I suppose if you go waaaay back it was different, true. Back in the days of Usenet (as a discussion forum rather than as the piracy filesharing system it's mostly used for nowadays) there weren't these sorts of ToS on it and everything got freely archived in numerous different places because that's just how it was. It was the first Fediverse, I suppose.
The ironic thing is that kbin.social's ToS has no "ownership" stuff in it either. For now, at least, the new ActivityPub-based Fediverse is in the same position that Usenet was - I assume a lot of the other instances also don't bother with much of a ToS and the posts get shared around beyond any one instance's control anyway. So maybe this grumpy old-timer may get to see a bit of the good old days return, for a little while. That'll be nice.
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You must be kidding. You surely haven't heard about Fediverse.
Are you serious? We're speaking in the Fediverse right now. It's notable in its difference. Though instances have their own TOSes, so it'd be pretty trivial to set one up to harvest content for AI training as well.
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is there a real fediverse alternative to tumblr yet? i did hear that tumblr was working on activitypub support... but this shows the opposite intentions :<
they're in alpha still
it's not federated or open, but cohost is a tumblr-alternative run by a group of queer devs who promise not to sell the company or your data. i don't blame you if you don't buy into it, but i do like the platform
edit: based on what /u/[email protected] has mentioned about the TOS, as well as further elaboration i found in a thread about it (https://twitter.com/rahaeli/status/1588769277053739010), i don't think i can responsibly advocate for cohost, even as a closed/private alternative to tumblr
I wouldn't really trust that promise, frankly. I just checked their terms of service and it has the usual clause:
You must own all rights, title, and interest, including all intellectual property rights, in and to, the User Content you make available on the Services. ASSC requires licenses from you for that User Content to operate the Services. By posting User Content on the Services, you grant ASSC a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your User Content.
Which isn't really surprising, it's standard boilerplate for a reason. They don't want to be caught in a situation where they can't function legally any more. They say they won't sell the company or your data, and they might even believe that right now, but who knows what the future might bring? They have the ability to do so if the circumstances arise.
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@alyaza @kittykittycatboys Friendica, to some degree. It's pretty flexible, and you can have something like a basic blog. You do depend on the server admin to install the themes that you need, if they're not present. Once they're installed, you can switch between them at will.
There is even a Tumblr add-on if there's anyone you need to follow there.
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That is not opposite, they just want to pull in data from the fediverse automatically so that they can sell it too.
We need some explicit licensing of our public fediverse data otherwise it will just be used to sell it back to us.
Yeah I've seen almost no movement against Tumblr while everyone got very riled up about Meta federation ie fedipact, probably a blindspot bc users have positive associations with tumblr, but it's still an ad/data company all the same.
No one actually believes that Tumblr will implement AP
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I'm intrigued too, seems like a fairly simple platform to replicate
How does tumblr keep jumping into bad decisions don't they know their audience lmao
I mean, they let themselves get bought by Yahoo and they banned erotic art. Its like they want to fail.
Then they got bought automattic, the owners of wordpress.com
Yes, I recall when they had a policy of never allowing account deletion.