this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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Ok, me and my wife are doing a re watch. I loved TNG and other Star Trek growing up, future is made great through tech, utopia is possible, go humanity, etc.

Wife's watching the series. I dip in from time to time, I know some spoilers and how some characters are, but can't remember a single plot all the way through. We watched the Pegasus (S7E12).

Like, it completely ruined Star Trek. Humanity and the federations before that point are going into all interactions with aliens, and we always assume they're the good guys, always acting on good faith, the frustrations they have with other species is because the other species don't believe how nice they can be, earth has no problems of racism or hunger or fucking whatever.

And then, no, we have clandestine , backstabbing stuff, fully known by the federation, covered up, everyone hushed, the research discontinued, but searched for so it can be dug up again. That research, which was done in direct, knowing violation of a peace treaty they cobbled together with the Romulans, which have been the semi bad guys in various episodes.

Well, if the fucking federation are known, lying backstabbing, black ops using, pride and wrath addled assholes, I also would look at them with distrust. No wonder the Ferengi don't want to join the Federation, of course the Cardassians are attacking on the borders.

Every time they go to a space bar and dig around for information, all the other aliens are wearing some personable clothing with their own customs and history woven into the fabric, when these squares rock up wearing a space potato sack, talking about the greater good. Fuck off you Maoist assholes.

I love the series and the morals, but the worldbuilding is fucking destroyed with this episode. I assume this is what gives way to the section 31 film and all that.

I'd love to hear some counterarguments. I loved seeing Star Trek as a utopia, and with humanity being their best with great leadership. I want to go back to that point of view.

PS : Also, Picard says to decloak right in front of the romulan warbird, then they never show that conversation. I want to know how he talked his way out of that one, and the rammifications. We're about to watch sub rosa, and I am looking forward to the source of all the beverly ghost fucker memes.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I see this as an episode about humans being… human. That despite significant advances in human civilization towards a socialist utopia, there is still greed and a lust for power in humanity, and that strong steps still need to be taken to blunt those evils.

Picard decloaking in front of the Romulans may not have translated well to Romulan mores, but it’s an attempt to re-establish trust, a way of saying, “we don’t tolerate shit like this, and here is us exposing this malfeasance to prove our dedication to being honest.”

I mean, the Romulans will most certainly assume the worst, because they will project onto humans that which they are most likely to do themselves. But at least Picard is holding true to what the Federation stands for, which means airing dirty laundry such that the Federation can learn from it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

I see this as an episode about humans being… human. That despite significant advances in human civilization towards a socialist utopia, there is still greed and a lust for power in humanity, and that strong steps still need to be taken to blunt those evils.

Yeah, that's why knowing there are some black ops (illegal infiltration of cardassians, bending the rules on the prime directive) seemed "ok ish" , but this time it wasn't an isolated case or someone's gone rouge, or one writer making a shitty episode. This one was whole cloth, institutionalised , embedded, wholesale corrupt , dishonest and breaking treaties actions taken by all levels of federation leadership, and the creative team coming on board with "yeah, federation aren't all that they seem".

Picard decloaking in front of the Romulans may not have translated well to Romulan mores, but it’s an attempt to re-establish trust, a way of saying, “we don’t tolerate shit like this, and here is us exposing this malfeasance to prove our dedication to being honest.”

I mean, the Romulans will most certainly assume the worst, because they will project onto humans that which they are most likely to do themselves. But at least Picard is holding true to what the Federation stands for, which means airing dirty laundry such that the Federation can learn from it.

great perspective

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

but this time it wasn't an isolated case or someone's gone rouge, […]. This one was whole cloth, institutionalised , embedded, wholesale corrupt , dishonest and breaking treaties actions taken by all levels of federation leadership,

Except… was it?

It’s been a while since I watched that episode, but my memory and impressions was that of the Admiral (then Captain) having this as a pet project. As in, an extremely limited skunkworks project that was heavily siloed away from the rest of the Federation command structure.

It’s only when the ship was at risk of being discovered that the cover-up expanded. And with that Admiral still in the pole position, calling the shots. So it still appears to be of limited scope/corruption.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

https://lemmy.world/post/30261184/17288875

PICARD: You know, it wasn’t easy to get this record. I had to pull in quite a few favours at Starfleet just to get a look at it. It seems that it was classified by Starfleet Intelligence.

 later

PICARD: The Judge Advocate also believes that the surviving officers are deliberately withholding vital information from this inquiry. Further investigation is recommended. Will, there was no further investigation. This report was classified and then it was quietly buried. Why?

RIKER: Sir, may I suggest you take this up with Admiral

PICARD: I’m taking this up with you, Will! The Judge Advocate thought you were participating in a conspiracy to cover up the truth. Now, what the hell is going on here, Will?

The judge advocate on the case is not in on the secret. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t go higher, but the conversation does imply that whoever was involved had limited authority to, say, prevent that inquiry in the first place, or to instruct the judge advocate to avoid sensitive topics.

  Someone did have the authority to classify and bury the report. Maybe that’s something the Chief of Intelligence could do unilaterally.)`
[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I don't think the Pegasus plan involves all levels of Federation leadership. I think it's a conspiracy that, although it does include at least one of the highest-ranking Starfleet officers, doesn't go all the way to the top. From the transcript:

PRESSMAN: It's not just me, Will. The Chief of Starfleet Security has personally given me her assurance of complete support.

RIKER: Admiral Raner? How many other people know about this?

PRESSMAN: Not many, and it's up to us to make sure it stays that way. Raner has given me written orders for you.

Pressman says that a small number of people are involved. He doesn't mention the Federation president or any Federation officials outside of Starfleet (remember that Starfleet is the military-ish arm of the Federation, it's not the whole organization.) He only mentions one Starfleet officer.

Pressman emphasizes that it's important to keep the secret from getting out. Of course that's partly because he doesn't want the Romulans finding out. But I think it's mainly that the conspirators don't want to be held to account for unauthorized actions.

Later in the episode Pressman tells Picard, "the Chief of Starfleet Intelligence herself is watching this one". I think it's possible that Chief of Security and Chief of Intelligence are titles used interchangeably for the same office. Or it could be a second officer involved in the conspiracy.

There's also this conversation:

PICARD: You know, it wasn't easy to get this record. I had to pull in quite a few favours at Starfleet just to get a look at it. It seems that it was classified by Starfleet Intelligence.

[...]

PICARD: The Judge Advocate also believes that the surviving officers are deliberately withholding vital information from this inquiry. Further investigation is recommended. Will, there was no further investigation. This report was classified and then it was quietly buried. Why?

RIKER: Sir, may I suggest you take this up with Admiral

PICARD: I'm taking this up with you, Will! The Judge Advocate thought you were participating in a conspiracy to cover up the truth. Now, what the hell is going on here, Will?

The judge advocate on the case is not in on the secret. That doesn't mean it doesn't go higher, but the conversation does imply that whoever was involved had limited authority to, say, prevent that inquiry in the first place, or to instruct the judge advocate to avoid sensitive topics.

Someone did have the authority to classify and bury the report. Maybe that's something the Chief of Intelligence could do unilaterally.

Note that Picard is confident that with the secret exposed the project will be shut down. If it had been authorized at all levels you might expect it to continue, but out in the open.

Now Section 31, that does seem to be institutionalized so that's a different story.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

There's a relevant episode if you don't mind DS9 spoilers:

DS9 spoilersThe DS9 episodes Homefront and Paradise Lost feature another conspiracy that looks to me to be similar in scale and position to the Pegasus conspiracy. Those episodes are very explicit about the separation of Starfleet and Federation leadership.