this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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Politicians constantly talk about stopping the illegal immigrants that are coming from Mexico, but putting a wall has never and will never be a solution since the reason why so many displaced keep coming across the border is mostly to escape the crime, corruption, inequality, and violence of they have to live in their home countries. The worst part is that most of these terrible things is that happen in third world countries are rooted in constant subversion by developed countries, primarily the US. I feel like since we caused this (even if in part) we should help stop it now, even if we didn't publicly admit guilt to save face.

So, how do we do it? Do we straight up invade Mexico and go on a full out war against the cartels like we did against Osama Bin Laden?

If not, why not? And, is there anything that can be done?

I would like to keep things civil. Please, let's keep this respectful as I know this is a tough issue and there is anger on both sides of this issue.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Gambling should never be considered a legit business. IMO casinos et al. should be shut down, for the same reason that payday lenders should be beaten to death in the streets: they're fundamentally predatory businesses.

The problem with prostitution and organized crime is that it's not victimless once the mob gets involved. "Bitch better have my money" is a threat; you pay the pimp, or you get beaten, and possibly killed. You want to hire an independent escort? I'm fine with that. But significant amounts of prostitution involve sex trafficking, esp. "agencies" that constantly advertise "new girls".

All of the businesses that the mob--or any organized criminal gang--is in end up increasing costs due to corruption, and involve the threat of violence if anyone disrupts their money. People that try to compete in sectors controlled by criminal groups tend to end up dead very, very quickly, regardless of what the nature of the business is.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"Prohibition…goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes." - Abraham Lincoln

I get that you personally might have moral issues with gambling etc. but making something illegal doesn't stop it, it just pushes control into the hands of criminals. Want to give me a single instance where prohibition has ever worked?

If you want to stop cartels legalisation is literally the only path.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

but making something illegal doesn’t stop it,

That's... Not a good argument. Child pornography and prostitution is illegal because it's morally reprehensible, and incredibly, profoundly harmful to children. Same with murder, robbery, theft, etc. By definition, anything that is illegal is going to be done--or controlled--only by people that are criminals.

Does prohibition stop those things entirely? No, of course it doesn't. But it gives society tools to fight against them in a way that decriminalizing does not.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Prohibition doesn't give society tools, it removes them.

Take prostitution. Legalisation immediately leads to registration of hookers (blocking most human trafficking), gives oversight to inspectors, forces safety standards, allows for checks on welfare etc.. It also removes criminals from the chain, pimps, violence, drugs etc.. If you do a little research on this you'll see it's the better option. If you are a moral person your imperative should be on keeping all parties safe. And you have to realise prohibition never stops it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Legalization of prostitution is a problem by itself, because the regulatory costs end up being borne by the sex workers (more on that in a tic). For prostitutes that are working at a subsistence level or only doing sex work occasionally as a stop-gap--which is the majority of voluntary prostitution--that's not going to work. And what do you do, for instance, when a registered sex worker suddenly tests positive for HIV, or hepatitis C? Revoke their license, and then...? Legalizing doesn't eliminate trafficking, it just pushes the prices for trafficked prostitutes down, because trafficked prostitutes are slaves.

There are definitely harm-reduction models that can, and do, work for sex work, but legalization and regulation--when that regulatory costs are paid by either the sex worker or the customer--will not work the way you think for harm reduction. For the system to work as intended, you would also need things like national single-payer healthcare (...that isn't constantly getting funding slashed by conservatives), and licensing that was both on-demand and free to the licensee, and you would need something to deal with the loss of income if they contracted an incurable STI. (Otherwise they would continue working, which would be a public health risk.) Inspections, compliance measures, et al. could not be a cost borne by the sew worker/clients or else you'd see non-compliance with regulatory measures. Most sex-worker advocates call for decriminalization rather than legalization/regulation because that's the model that moves the most risk away from the sex worker, but you do need to also balance the needs of the worker against the the needs of society to a degree.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

You seem to be using the cost of regulation as an excuse against decriminalisation or legalisation of prostitution which i find wild.

Firstly a slightly higher cost to cover overhead would be fine for most johns if they didn't have to risk jail I'd imagine. I'm also sceptical that would even be needed. My understanding is currently in the US pimps take the majority of what sex workers earn.

Remember theres also tax revenue generated here so that would easily cover any government oversight...or does in other countries.

Also take into account that cost of not regulating is far far far higher. It's like the cost of homelessness - it costs massive amounts to a community oddly! The medical, policing, social services etc etc not to mention cost in terms of violence from criminal behaviour, drug addiction etc etc.. At the end of the day it bringing people into society is a far better option for all.