this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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NonCredibleDefense

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

Famously transporting large volumes of hydrogen has never gone wrong and hydrogen charging stations have proven very reliable and also hydrogen as an alternative to electric is definitely not a ploy by big oil to keep drilling for fossil fuels!

Good job hyundai 👍 Very credible 👍🏿

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 minutes ago

My dude, the military transports more volatile materials than hydrogen every day. Just because something doesn't make sense for civilian use doesn't mean it's never going to be viable for military use.

If you're worried about the dangers of transporting something like hydrogen, you're going to lose it when you find out what bombs are made out of.

Electric motors are just more efficient in just about every way at scale, the current diesel motors being used in tanks aren't really able to be improved upon. They're at their technological peak, so the only way to move forward with mbt is by figuring out how to make electric motors work.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

No no, it’s credible because it decreases the ground weight, and if you fill it up enough, it can just float over AT mines 🤓

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 40 minutes ago (1 children)

Heh yeah, though it’s also an Iain M. Banks reference

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 minutes ago (1 children)

I kind of lost track of his books in the early 2000s, but they're still among my favorites. Gone too soon :/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 minutes ago

Absolutely. I was heartbroken when he passed :(

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 hours ago

Yes that is the sound that the compressor makes when it puts the hydrogen in

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

hydrogen as an alternative to electric is definitely not a ploy by big oil to keep drilling for fossil fuels!

What are you talking about?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

Basically all of hydrogen production is sourced from fossil fuels.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 47 minutes ago

Basically, burning hydrogen is roughly 4 times worse than burning diesel right now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Huh, I somehow thought the production method had shifted to renewable energy.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

In the case of military vehicles, hydrogen is about the greenest option that we're gonna get. No one is going to make a battery powered AFV, because where the fuck would you charge it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Just put solar panels on top, easy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 52 minutes ago

If you ignore the fragility (creates a weak point to disable the tank) and the slow charging rate, dust and debris from firefights would be a pretty big issue.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Isn’t hydrogen even more flammable and explosive than petroleum. Just seems like a dumb idea to put that in a military vehicle.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, obviously, putting explosives and projectile propellants in an armored vehicle is dangerous and should be avoided

/s

OSHA is not a credible military threat

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

Right, but you are going to want to choose a fuel that has the least chance of flaming up if you’re making a military vehicle.

Hydrogen has (compared to petroleum) a Wider Flammability Range, Lower Ignition Energy (0.02 millijoules) which is really low and much smaller than petroleum, and a higher diffusion rate.

All of which make it more likely to go kaboom.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

Silly one, and but do tanks run on diesel?

Every other heavy machine I can think of typically uses diesel for their engines: tractors, lorries, boats.

Also diesel is less flammable then petrol or hydrogen in the event of a spill of leak...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

Diesel is a type of petroleum product.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The Abrams uses jet fuel mainly. But most tanks are diesel.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The Abrams can run on just about anything liquid and flammable. It's not gonna be happy about it, but it'll go.

I think it was designed by pakleds...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Yup, that's why I put "mainly"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Wasn't trying to call you out for being wrong or only partially correct, just think it's neat all the stuff they considered when designing and testing it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

Right, no worries. I was just being lazy and didn't wanna explain. You did and did it in less words than I would've needed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Sir this is NCD. That comment is far too credible.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

Shit I never saw I was in a meme sub lmao. To be fair the comments above mine seemed mostly serious.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago

Some of the best serious conversations get started by meme posts.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 hours ago

Would you say that we (wiggles eyebrows) subverted your expectations?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 hours ago

You'd probably want a quick swap battery and charging far from the front lines.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (4 children)

Who if not the Germans built an electric tank in 2020 https://efahrer.chip.de/news/geraeuschlose-einsaetze-weltweit-erster-elektro-panzer-kommt-aus-deutschland_103179

Sounds crazy at first but comes with some good advantages: it can cross rivers as it doesn’t need air for combustion, it’s silent, and you can load it anywhere at the battle field if you have solar panels, time and sun. Still you can rely on military logistics to carry a swap battery. But isn’t the military supply chain the first target to disrupt? My two cents, this is the next thing at battle fields.

Oh, and if all your equipment runs on electricity, you can load and reload power at your needs. Tank needs power but car not? Combat robot out if power and car is full? Transfer the power

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Any reasonably sized pv installation near a battlefield will definitely not look suspicious on reconnaissance images.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

You think less suspicious than these huge petrol storages in a city?

PV can be dismantled, if needed. I bet it’s even cheaper to replace when destroyed compared to petrol storage. Anyway, future will tell

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Tanks are going the way of the battle ship though. Drones are doing a lot of the stuff they can do, and a lot of things they can't.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

I can imagine a unmanned autonomous tank though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not super familiar with the matter, but what do you mean by "going the way of the battle ship"? Do you mean they're becoming more obsolete because of their size/utility compared to drones?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 hours ago

That, and expense. Tanks cost millions, while a $5k drone with an RPG strapped to it can take it out and exploit the weak spots.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Honestly if MILITARY applications are what kicks renewable energy and mass storage into high gear, I won't be surprised, but I will be disappointed.

But hey, improvement is still improvement and if a military organization sees renewable as the future, they're gonna try to make sure they get there first. As long as whoever gets there shares the progress with the rest of the world, I'm okay with it.

But who am I kidding, it's gonna be China or the US and the rest of the world won't see shit for decades due to suppression of research and technology that would allow for similar specs to be achieved privately...

... How credible is my aluminum foil hat guy?

I must admit though, it'd be cool to see an armored combat battery sliding across a field to quick charge a tank that died mid-battle. 10 seconds of charging to get it up and running, and the battery moves to the next low power thing. I'm imagining a semi-autonomous hot-swap of a battery compartment and eventually recharging like modern airplane mid-air refueling. Insert Rod A into Slot A and wait a little bit. The faster they want it to charge, the more they'll dump into R&D.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Just wait some years - they have solid state batteries close to industry ready. That means huge increase in capacity and no issues with temperature.

Next stage will be structural batteries where you take the structure as battery. For a tank that means all the armour will be charged and work as battery. Just a matter of years.

Loading time is solved already. It’s a matter of battery temperature while infusing power and solved by battery management software.

Any idea why the Boston Dynamics robots aren’t on a battle field? I mean the do incredible stunts. It‘s the battery. Lasts for around 2-3 hours. Today. Military is working on that, I‘m pretty sure.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 49 minutes ago (1 children)

Carrying volatile chemical energy on the outside of your tank seems somewhat unwise.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 30 minutes ago

There are other types of batteries that don't involve volatiles, like water batteries or metal-air batteries.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 hours ago

Still you can rely on military logistics to carry a swap battery. But isn’t the military supply chain the first target to disrupt?

That's true as well for hydrogen, though. And I guess there's a higher chance of getting access to "power" somewhere in the field than finding a hydrogen tank. Also, energy density of lithium batteries is higher than for hydrogen storage.