this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
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I mean … one of these is a violent conflict where mostly civilians are being hit, on both sides. The other is a country defending itself from an invasion. One of these is really complicated and I’m pretty sure violence won’t solve much. The other one really isn’t complicated on the same level and violence (defense) is pretty much the only choice.
We're talking about the Ukraine-Russia conflict from the Ukrainian government's perspective, right?
Right? :padme:
Ukraine isn’t “defending itself from an invasion”. Ukraine’s democratically elected government was overthrown by a US sponsored military coup. The coup was carried out by Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse ethnic Russians from the territory. The Russian majority areas voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and called on Russia to protect them when the Ukrainian coup government invaded them.
Russia’s goal is not “conquering all of Ukraine”. Russia’s military objectives are
Halting the ongoing killing of ethnic Russians in the Donbas Republics by the Ukrainian nazi coup government.
Disabling the nazi coup government’s military capacity to act as a staging ground for US attacks on Russia.
Russia has continually offered ceasefires with the only substantive condition being “stop killing Russians”, and the nazi coup government has been unwilling to negotiate because the US has told them they’re not permitted to stop killing.
Don't bother with him; that's a treat-obsessed techbro peckerwood
Well, that at least explains what community I ended up in. Thanks for the clarification.
Came here just to get ridiculed so you could call us out for the ridicule. LOL typical
Translation:
Sources on one particular point I recently gathered, which is the peace deals being offered by the Russian side: https://archive.ph/9BVwS https://archive.ph/LrOtO
willful ignorance is definitely preferable to learning anything! keep up the good work, friend
Yes. The Palestinians are defending themselves from an invasion by another country while Ukraine and Russia will have to find a way to peacefully live next to each other.
Unfortunately isn't that simple. If you would like to know more about the Ukrain conflict than please read "How the West Brought War to Ukraine: Understanding How U.S. and NATO Policies Led to Crisis, War, and the Risk of Nuclear Catastrophe" by Benjamin Abelow. It gives a far more balanced en factual analysis about the conflict.
Maybe how the conflict itself came to be isn’t simple (and calling anything simple that involves politics is probably always wrong). But the situation for the people in the Ukraine itself is pretty simple. They’re being attacked and they’re defending themselves.
Yet another lib who thinks the conflict started in 2022, and thus has little understanding of it
You could say the same for the people in Palestine. They're forced to live under the boot of an oppressive apartheid regime and they're trying to free themselves. Pretty simple, right?
Apparently that’s an unpopular opinion, but to free themselves the ideal path forward is to conduct terrorist attacks on civilians? That certainly didn’t seem to improve things. And bombing civilians isn’t a great response either.
Didn't Ukraine literally just launch missile/artillery attacks at random civilian targets in Donetsk... The same thing they've been doing for almost a decade?
also they've been carrying out improvised drone bombings on Russian civilian centres like Moscow
"Terrorism" is a meaningless word used to create a false separation between the small violence of the oppressed and the massive violence of the oppressor. The Nazis also called resistance fighters under their occupation "terroristic barbarians" and claimed this proved that slaughtering them was justified.
"I'm all for liberation, but not like that" headass
frrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
You sound like you can't be fucked to even try understanding how settler-colonial ethnic cleansing and oppression justifies violence from the oppressed-- which scans, considering your considerably treat-obsessed techbro posting background.
basically, it all sounds like
to me where you're concerned.
I‘m not trying to argue for one side here and I’m certainly no expert in this conflict. All I’ve been saying is that violence is probably not going to be the solution here. Especially not the kind of violence that Israel is and has been putting Palestinians through.
Unfortunately, violence is a part of the solution at this point. Violence is the only thing that stopped the Nazis' genocidal conquest, it is what enabled the Black South Africans to take back their country from their colonizers. Palestinians tried diplomacy for years, and all it got them was softer genocide. They tried peaceful protest, and their were shot dead by the hundreds. Listen, I get it, violence is not pretty, but when you are dealing with fascists such as the Israelis, you end up not having much choice in the matter. The violence will stop when Israeli apartheid and genocide stops, and that likely won't stop until Israel as it exists is defeated, as fascism is baked deeply into its political structure.
Then what is the solution to a settler-colonial menace kicking in your door and demanding your land? Acquiescence and surrender? You'd see done to the Palestinians what Amerika has done to the Indigenous and Black populations in their country. Like I said.
What’s the solution that involves violence? It can be a wake up call to start a discussion, but I don’t see how things are going to be solved by it. But you tell me.
When your rip out your intruder by his roots, and cast him into the fire. You cannot really be sitting here trying to justify to someone whose lineage still bears the scars of Amerika's colonialism, that another people's settler-colonialism should go unopposed. You can't be. Expecting the settler to just fuck off back to wherever he came from is idealistic and patently impossible, as Amerika's example shows us; so what's left from the perspective of the colonized? Like I said.
Don't bother replying; I don't 'debate' with settlers(and settlers aren't just Amerikan; it's a state of mind-- but cute 'gotcha!' attempt) and you've already shown your hand.
No way am I saying it should go unopposed. But I also don’t think "ripping out intruders and casting them into fire" is going to be a feasible solution in this case.
I don’t live in the US btw, if that’s what you mean by "Settler". (Are we continuing the discussion by editing the comments now? ^^)
Okay, so "settler" is not a geographical thing for you. Must be nice living in a world where people can be categorized so easily and accurately into two groups. And also nice that good and evil are so plainly obvious. If only the real world wasn’t so complicated.
All you've done is complain about the solution the Palestinians have come up with in order to liberate themselves. If an occupying state is doing everything it can to eradicate you and your people what do you think their only choices are going to be?
That peckerwood was still going off over on his instance even after his ban lmfao. Debate pervs gonna debate perv, especially the crackerish ones
People like this can't even bother to think outside the framework of simplistic logic of "violence bad". Like motherfucker if someone is trying to kill me I'm not just gonna let them... it's the same dumbfuck horseshoe theory of "violence against oppressors makes you just as bad as the oppressors"
Honestly, much love to the ancestors who paved our way; but I stand on the assertion that the likes of Dr. King and other non-violent activists fucked us all up giving the peckerwoods an 'idealistically higher' option to cudgel us with. I don't doubt they'd have come up with a way to get to the same old horseshoe horseshit "just as bad" nonsense-- but the deliberately-half taught beliefs of Dr. King and nem (because they NEVER teach about the whole "that dream I had, has in many ways become a nightmare" quote, or how he was getting closer in ideology to Ture, and Seale, and el-Shabazz before the government had him murdered) allows these crackers to feel so morally superior when they stare down their nose and hem and haw about how "absolutely evil directly fighting back against one's oppressor is".
That's a fact. I also know that a lot of our people tend to be religious and that plays a factor in the whole "nonviolent" tactic. I don't like the idea of the tragic martyr, that the oppressors will grow a heart and that's how we can "earn" our freedom. If they had a heart they wouldn't have dehumanized and enslaved us in the first place
I got a free pdf version here if you are interested.
https://annas-archive.org/md5/193c4b51b5aa5c3270c9163200f0d475