this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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MeanwhileOnGrad

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Meanwhile On Grad


Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!


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Incase anyone tells you that lemmy.ml is not a tankie instance.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

I’m referring more to the fact that Marx envisioned the populace rising up. What really rose in places like Russia and China was a group of self appointed elites who were really just reactionaries.

Tankies get mad because they believe that their utopia already exists and everyone else is an idiot for not ascribing to the same.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What really rose in places like Russia and China was a group of self appointed elites who were really just reactionaries.

Are you suggesting the Red Guard didn't exist and the Long March didn't happen?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I'll start over:

Me: self appointed elites did this

You: oh so you're saying that none of it happened?

It's a non sequitur, it has nothing to do with the conversation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Me: self appointed elites did this

Again, you really need to go back and read the history of the Chinese Revolution of you believe this. I might - at a bare minimum - crack open a copy of Fanshen or Life and Death in Shanghai. The idea that the Chinese Civil War and Cultural Revolution were waged by "elites" in any conceivable sense is flatly wrong. It is ahistorical to the point of being the opposite of truth. Like insisting George Washington was a First Nations native person or asserting the French Revolution was orchestrated by the Hapsburgs.

At its ugliest, Chinese revolutionaries were arresting, beating, and executing anyone who might vaguely be defined as "elite". You were having people fight over whether parents should be executed for being landlords over their children. The opening scene of the Netflix "3 Body Problem" wasn't all that far from the truth - college professors were, in fact, getting hauled out in front of student committees for adhering to the texts of English and German physicists. The very idea of "elitism" was what was on trial during the hottest years of the revolution.

It’s a non sequitur

You don't know your history. You're saying things that are flatly, broadly, and totally incoherent.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

The idea that the Chinese Civil War and Cultural Revolution were waged by “elites” in any conceivable sense is flatly wrong.

Jesus fucking Christ.

The very idea of “elitism” was what was on trial during the hottest years of the revolution.

It was the process of creation of an entrenched counter-elite - a process which had been ongoing since at least WW2 in the CCP.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Lol found the tankie. You all simply can’t avoid making it personal. You’ve managed to affirm everything I’ve been saying in this thread.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Lol found the tankie. You all simply can’t avoid making it personal.

What?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They think their utopia already exists

Yet they refuse to go live there

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Good observation!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Marx thought that the revolution would need leaders, and so the self-appointed elites aren't totally out of keeping. It's just that they were then supposed to step down and let the people govern themselves.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That, again, is another reason why they are not really communist. “Workers of the world unite”

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Exactly. My point at that time was to say that it can happen but had not yet.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

From my (very limited) understanding of Marx and Engels I suggest your point is correct. I don’t understand how a full-fat, red flag waving comrade could come to any other conclusion… but then I have no dog in this fight and no emotional need to be correct.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

sadly there are many stalinists and moaists. the Russian revolution ended when stallin took power.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

I think that’s why you and I aren’t tankies, militant vegans, hard evangelicals, etc. It’s not important enough to worry about.