this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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chapotraphouse
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"just be normal and you'll get laid"
While it is not simply true that every time you fight, you win, it is simply true that every time you don't fight, you lose. If one of these people with their terribe beliefs and vibes is unwilling to even try and pretend to be less hostile than they are, for at least as long as it takes to have a conversation with someone, it wouldn't make sense for them to expect positive results from that.
you think these people are born with their believes? or that people just for fun go on incel forums and think to themselves "oh that's the right thing for me"? no, they are normal people, normal kids, who for some reason or another (and there are many many many obvious reasons) have no luck in love and life, go somewhere to air their grievances, get told that it is their own fault, that something is wrong with them, that they just have bad vibes. that if they were just "normal" they wouldn't have these issues and that life and love would just happen to them. whether you air your legitimate grievances on reddit, on here or anywhere else on the internet, you get the same spiel, which really only differs from incel ideology in slight shades. at best you might get the late capitalist "self improvement" shit, where you first have to become a productive worker and happy consumer to maybe then become a human being.
what you are saying is basically dating coach bullshit: just pretend to be something you are not, talk to as many women as possible and you can "expect results" and get laid.
its genuinely fucking sad that you people can rightfully blame everything on capitalism, but when it comes to human relationships. loneliness and love, you are as lib as one can get. no systematic critique at all, no empathy, just quasi-fascist appeals to "normalcy".
No, but them being as much a product of their environment as anyone else doesn't mean that the worldview they've arrived at isn't actively contributing to their continued polarization against all other people. Like how diseases in late stages cause feedback loops that exacerbate their symptoms. For the purposes of what I originally said, it doesn't matter how they arrived at the ideology they hold, only that they have. There are a million capital R Reasons and capital C Circumstances, and all that matters to this discussion is not why they are, only that they are. I'm not interested in assigning blame or moral failure to anyone, because I find it to be a useless and unmaterialist impulse when it comes to analysis: I would rather examine dynamics as they are, resisting the urge to insert my own feelings, to see what's going on. With that in mind, this:
Is a wild mischaracterization based on a mischaracterization of something I said. Nobody said anything about "expecting results" but you, twice now, while I have specifically said it's not like that. You can't treat interacting with people like a science, there is no perfect formula, and anyone promising you anything in that vein is lying or has been lied to. The facts are these:
-Inceldom is a dark social and epistemological nexus that many mostly young dudes get swept up in and preyed upon by, for a billion different reasons (see Reasons and Circumstances)
-Once you have internalized a certain concentrated amount of that ideology from that environment, it begins to affect your view of people and relationships, like many ideologies do. The social effects of this one, from what I can see, are unpleasant. Regardless of what you had going on before, this is now also an issue
-Ideally, the person affected would find a good therapist at this point. If they can't, and they don't manage to figure their shit out and they eschew even the bare minimum (bad faith) effort of concealing their contempt for the person they ostensibly want to get close to (like how lots of people with resentful outlooks manage to date, even though they really shouldn't), then it is reasonable to expect that approach to yield continued and self-fufilling alienation.
Like, obviously one should work though their negative feelings in the first place. But there are a terrifiying number of people who don't do that, who still manage to achieve at least shallow relationships by concealing their shit and playing a part. Is that approach to relationships fucked up, socially and psychologically corrosive, and a sign of a more widespread social sickness? Absofuckinlutely. But (and again, we're being amoral here) is it a marginally more effective individual approach to relationships than unconcealed hostility? Scoreboard says Also Yes.
I've not written anywhere that incel ideology is right or that it does good to people. It clearly does not. What I am saying is that incels are wrong and you and a lot of people on this website are wrong too when they talk about dating and love and relationships.
I cannot even begin to say what a disgusting and untenable position this is. I have a thousand times more sympathy with an incel who cannot hide his misogyny and doesn't get what he wants than with a man who can hide his misogyny to get his dick wet and just gets what he wants. I'd much rather the misogynist does not "play a part" in social reproduction. The incel does much less harm to the world than the regular misogynist does.
So you're saying hexbear should be brigading these incel forums with leftist, inclusive ideology to try to turn some people off their path of isolation and despair? It's not the worst idea I've heard