this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
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A Boring Dystopia
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So do I understand correctly that on this globe you can only be against genocide of the Palestinians if you live in an authoritarian country like China, Iran, Russia, etc.?
Obviously in those countries you can't be against their own genocides like the Uhigers, Ukrainians, etc. But somehow when it comes to Israel the rest of the world seems to not dare being against genocide?
Is is because the US is so powerful that they fear reprecusions? Or why is that?
My biggest issue is Americans. Half of Americans support genocide, the other half want to moralize and lead the charge against it, which just comes off as hypocrisy considering i didn’t even get so much as an apology for all the bombings and invasions my country took by Americans. Now Americans are moralizing to my brown indigenous ass about colonialism and genocide and acting like once again Americans should lead this movement, which only cheapens it. Americans need to get in the back of the line and shut the fuck up. Support but leave your moralizing at home, and “I wasn't personally the one who bombed you” is not an excuse for Israelis so it’s not one for Americans either. You guys fucked half the world and now you wanna move on and leave it in the past so you don’t have to take collective responsibility
It absolutely is, for both.
You don’t get to reap the rewards of colonialism and war while dodging all the responsibilities
And 99% of us vote for it every two years, because both ruling parties are warmongers.
But what gets me the most is that half of voters' opinions on war change depending on who's in power. The folks who are so anti-war right now would fully support it if Harris were in office, and that changing of opinions based on political convenience and nothing else just infuriates me. They still defend Obama's bloodied hands even though he was bombing seven different countries while in office. (That we know of)
I mean, I def get what you’re saying. I do. But do you really have anti-genocide Americans saying something about “Americans should lead this movement?” Because that’s an insane take I can’t imagine you’ve really run into in the wild.
The US is the worst perpetrator of colonialist violence, no doubt.
What if I flipped this and said this is the exact rationale Israel is using against the population of Palestine? The population who’s been too young to have anything to do with anything Hamas has done, but they’re getting punished for it?
My point isn’t that the US has no blame. I don’t think you can actually find a US leftist who believes that. And if any US leftist is throwing blame all over the world without recognizing the history of the US? I mean, they’re beyond stupid.
My point is…why subdivide us further? The left is being repressed all over the world while fascism takes root once again. And your biggest gripe is…people who were born into a place? We should not be finding ways to take the high road over each other. Because there is a global rise of fascism while an active genocide takes place. And you’re here—if I can borrow a phrase—moralizing. To a T. You are claiming your biggest problem is with other people who agree with you, but who aren’t as pure of heart as you? You’re the real anti genocide crusader because ____?
Why. Why are we constantly using our morals and ideologies as cudgels against other people who would agree with us if we weren’t actively trying to find differences between us? We, the global working class should not be doing the work of the ruling class. And finding reasons to hate and belittle other working class people for generalized reasons beyond their control is very much doing the work for them.
So please stop. We have the most powerful tool of communication and global community at our fingertips and we’re using it to further divisions among the working class. When we could so easily harness it and mobilize a general strike that would cripple the ruling class in a matter of days. But this kind of moralizing you’re doing that is so common online (because corporations made social media and gave us an avenue to wear our ideas like patches, crippling three entire generations because we can’t see past that way of thinking) is the only thing stopping us.
The left and the American left is a whole different animal. The European and Canadian left is reasonable. The American left this past election went insane and has no business telling anyone what to do. I have never had racism and bigotry thrown at me by the left until this past year. The American left has become the world police and instead of fixing the dumpster fire in their country instead want to fix everyone else
Are you conflating the Democratic Party with the “American left?” That would be exactly where your problem lies.
Nope, it’s the anti democrat left in the US that has become ugly, toxic and racist just like the right. Opposite side of the same coin and it’s no surprise, considering you all spawned in the same murderous empire
Delusional nonsense
You can’t see how fucked up your shithole of a country is from within, im outside looking at the dumpster fire. All I see is your shithole empire burning, and even then you have to moralize and police the world and look down on everyone, instead of fixing your god damn country. You are at fault for trump and the instability he’s causing all of us
Oh Jesus, yes.
Sending Obama to black communities to call impoverished young men misogynistic and sending Bill Clinton up north to lecture angry Palestinian Americans was astonishing in the most tone-deaf and infuriating way.
You are overlooking Ireland. They support the Palestinians.
I'm many countries, yes, in many ots controversial. In others the political class is against the genocide, including Western countries.
Other than Spain and Ireland, which ones?
Brazil, Colombia, league of Arab counties, Norway, Sweden. Even Germany and France have expressed concern. The EU as whole is flagging that free trade agreements may be annulled due to war crimes.
Didn't Germany just veto the suspension? https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2025-06-23/germany-against-suspending-eu-deal-with-israel-official-says
Yes. Germany have been most supportive of Israel, as they misguidedly want to protect Jews, rather than people from genocide, to overcompensate for past actions. However, even there, the tide has turned and some politicians are making statements against Israel and her actions.
Which Arab countries? Every single one has been quiet, and some have been actively aiding the genocide.
To what end? Germany's been militant in its support, and France shrank away from actively censuring the genocidaires every chance they got.
They've been doing that dance for over a year. What has come of it?
The league of Arab nations. I think it is a body representing 50ish Islamic nations.
German politicians have until recently been saying that Israel is justified. They are now making statements that Israel has overstepped the line. Most people already see that. However, the point is about whether criticism of Israel is allowed. It is, both by people and politicians. There are also instances of EU(Irish) citizens being deported due to Palestine support. I purposely was pointing to mistakes most staunch supporter, to show that their support is diminishing.
Yes, there has been dancing since the October attack. Exactly my point. Criticism is not banned. Support for Israel is aiding genocide at this point. It seems the countries who support Israel most are those that sell them military supplies.
May I remind you that we're discussing this on a post about how an Australian woman in Australia was viciously beaten by state actors (cops) for engaging in criticism of Israel.
Again, if someone's being deported for criticizing Israel, I don't think that really qualifies as "criticism is allowed". In theory, I'm sure it is. In practice is a very different beast.
Yes, in a thread about global permissions to criticize. As it happens a friend of a friends knows her as she's active in the green party. She (the victim) was there as a legal observer, and is a lawyer, so very unlikely she was doing anything to warrant the assault.
So, to answer your point, despite the post being about Australia, this thread is about the global response.
I agree, deportation if an EU citizen is unusual. That happened months ago. My point is that the tide has turned, even in Germany. It's been permitted elsewhere indefinitely. The deportation was a sign of Gen breaking norms to support. There were also indications that of netanyahu came to France or Germany, he wouldn't be arrested. There were also indications that he would, so he didn't dare. Just like Putin hasn't.
In Sydney, where this assault happened there are weekly peaceful pro-palesrinian protests in Hyde park since the October 7th response. So, are you trying to say criticism or Israel is not permitted in Australia, based on this, or just trying to shift the goalposts again?
I wasn't concentrating specifically on Aus either, just pointing out that a prominent member of "the west" is brutally attempting to silence dissent, which they are. Yes, I am trying to say that criticism of Israel isn't looked upon kindly in Australia -- or in France, or in Germany, or in Italy, or in the Netherlands -- and there's no dearth of police brutality to be had in the US and Canada either.
As for arresting Netanyahu, Belgium and Hungary have straight up said they'll be doing no such thing, and Greece was more than happy to welcome him despite there being an ICC arrest warrant out for him. Germany's obviously not going to arrest him, France has done everything possible to be as lily-livered and non-committal about it as possible while backtracking on Palestinian recognition.
So no, it hasn't "been permitted" indefinitely. The tide is turning amongst the people, but governments are still being as heavy-handed and militaristic as possible to shield their genocidaire buddies and the military contracts they bring.
The Uyghur "genocide" is debatable. As far as I know, internment camps exist but there's no widespread executions like those claimed by western media. It's not like the Palestinian genocide where there's documented proof.
If one of them tries to walk out, do they just let them?
Watched an interesting take from one of the Chinese politician or whatever they are called there.
He was blaming the US imperial forces causing turmoil in Afghanistan which leaked into the Chinese side and fumed some of the locals now wanting to split from China and wanting their own nation. Pollie said their leader is an american citizen. So I guess china has been detaining these people? Who knows.
This is their loincloth of a justification for the genocide, yes.
That seems to be the official take according to the CCP, the internment camps are used to re-educate extremists.
Genocide doesnt require direct killing. Forced sterilization and destruction of cultural identity is also genocide.
From Wikipedia:
And there is plenty of documented proof of that. To deny that is to deny your own ability to see, read and think.
Is your proof from Adrian Zenz? Hasn't it been proven that he manipulated the data on his research and lied repeatedly?
So you admit to not being able to do any of those three?
Here have fun reading ~400 sources ranging from pre 2000 to present day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#References
Literally thousands of news organizations from left to right, old to new, small to large have reported on this. There are uncountable numbers of reports and pieces of evidence from texts to pictures to audio and video recordings to witness reports.
I merely asked whether your source is Adrian Zenz and your immediate reaction is to insult and belittle. I'm sorry but I'm just a nobody with no interest on genocide, so I haven't spent hours researching the subject. I guess that makes me a complete idiot who is unable to see, read or think.
If you ask me about some specific source, then you already know that what i have said is true and you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. If you know the name Adrian Zenz, then you know how to read a Wikipedia article.
Yeah, nah. I don't care enough to argue with you. Just for the record, I don't know what you said is true. I don't believe there's a genocide in Xinjiang. Sure, there's definitely bad things going on there like systemic oppression but I doubt it's at the level of genocide.
What do you mean by prove? This person just copy and pasted the definition.
They mentioned there's plenty of documented proof, so I asked whether it's from Adrian Zenz.
Why?
Because they are trying to catch people in a bad faith argument about the validity of specific individual sources.
I've not seen any major protests against the situation in Uhiger or Ukraine
The previous trending virtue signal was Climate Change so you had people dangling from bridges and blocking traffic, equally as annoying and ineffective
I think you'll find Western countries don't need much of an excuse to support colonial genocide.
It's because we are in the worst timeline. Evil has won in this para-dimension.
Fair.
I'm hopeful that it can't get exponentially worse forever.
It can. We're living in what our children will call the "good old days" right now.
Survival alone will be brutal next decade. Millions upon millions of climate/war refugees vs the thousands of today.
Survive for fucking what. What could possibly be on the other side?
The bright-side is that we are still mortal creatures. Our individual suffering gets to thankfully end when we die. Death is the release from this hell. I take comfort in the fact that someday soon I will be gone from this nightmare.
We hope. No one knows. Enjoy this hell. What dreams may come, all that.