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Young voters aren't warming up to Biden. They know it means Trump could win again.
(www.usatoday.com)
this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024
-31 points (34.7% liked)
politics
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It's a really childish view of what voting is supposed to be. No, Biden isn't everything you want, but Trump is a DUMPSTER FIRE who will actively make your life WORSE.
So your choice is:
He's everything anyone who says this wants.
That's fucking stupid. Most of Biden's base doesn't fucking like him. Our two options both have really shitty approval ratings.
We vote against the guy we hate the most here, not for someone we like.
I've already said I'm voting for the pro-genocide candidate you prefer. I am not abstaining, nor voting for the other pro-genocide candidate.
I am saying that if Biden does not cease his support for genocide, he will lose. You will blame me for his loss anyway because you don't care how anyone votes, you just want performative unquestioning fealty to your guy.
Oh no, I mean. When he loses it will be because of his disgusting choices in regards to the genocide. We're on the same page.
I want to not have Trump set it all on fire, which means voting Biden.
The notion that all misgivings are bratty insistence on perfection is insulting to people who have serious objections.
From people who have none.
I mean, the argument is "Biden isn't good enough, so I don't give a shit if the DRASTICALLY WORSE option wins."
Of course you sound like bratty perfectionists.
And you sound like you love everything Biden does. Especially the genocide support.
No sweetheart, it's called harm reduction. You see, the other option to intensify that genocide support.
Demeaning pet names and condescension are what centrists do when they can't defend the genocide they have always wanted.
We are not on the same page.
Removed, civility.
I. AM. GOING. TO. VOTE. FOR. BIDEN.
Holy fuck, centrists just love to assume that anyone who doesn't love genocide as much as they do must be voting for Trump or not voting. Why the fuck would I do something that would cause Trump to win? I have enough problems with YOUR pro-genocide turd. Why in gods name would I vote in a way that would cause someone even worse to win?
Go ahead. Ignore it again. Centrists only ever listen to Republicans anyway.
Buckaroo, do you think I like Biden? The only thing I've said that could possibly be construed as a defense of him is "Trump is going to be worse"
You were so caught up in your hatred of my criticism of his support for genocide, you assumed without evidence that I wasn't going to vote for him. When I told you that I was voting for him, you pulled this "we're on the same page" shit, and then immediately forgot it and decided I was gonna sit out the election again, so I had to tell you a second time, in all caps.
No, I don't think you like Biden. I think you exist for the sheer joy of worshiping him for supporting genocide and no other reason. I know this conflicts directly with something you said earlier in the thread, and I have chosen to return the favor of ignoring what you have to say.
And you have ignored for a third time that I am voting for Biden.
Yup. That prefrontal cortex thing. Sadly, many people way past adolescence never seem to have a fully-functioning one, either.
Ok, and? What's your plan to get people that are barely removed from actually being children to vote more? It's easy to come up with a reason why each segment of non-voters is making a dumb and self-destructive choice by not doing their patriotic duty to elect the better leader, but like, we still need them to vote. Elections are won on turning out unreliable voters.
The only real plan, unfortunately, is experience. They failed to learn the lesson from 4 years of Trump, if the country survives another 4 years maybe they'll think better next time.
"Oh, shit, I totally should have voted!"
Yeah, ya think?
The best things we can do now are too late for '24:
Push for universal vote by mail in ALL states. It eliminates the barriers to voting and increases participation.
Get ranked choice balloting in ALL states. Alaska is embarrassing the rest of us.
Just getting those two things would go a long way to permanently remove Republicans from power... which is why they won't do them voluntarily.
Those things are too late for 2048 even.
"Hey, if that guy wins, he's going to rob everyone then set fire to their grandmother. That means we can simply do nothing and it's a shoe-in!"
"Au contraire, mon frere. That means so long as we don't set fire to people's grandmothers, not only do we get to rob everyone, but they'll thank us for doing it, and we will own them."
Yeah no. We'll take the L just to see you get robbed too, and the smoke from your burning grandmothers will be as incense in our nostrils.
If the motherfucker thinks people will give him a pass on genocide as tribute for saving the country from trump, he's going to get a brutal fucking lesson in petty spite.
Your options are
Do you wanna protest? Riot? Something more drastic? You can vote and do that, so long as you avoid a felony conviction.
Biden is NOT the one committing genocide. Save that ire for Bibi where it belongs.
Biden is selling weapons that he knows will be used to commit genocide.
He should stop. Yes, Trump is worse. Yes, I'm voting for Biden. No one should be supporting genocide.
Biden is sending bibi new weapons daily
And Bibi is the one choosing to use them.
"I didn't kill anyone, I just gave the homicidal maniac a better gun. And then after he had already killed a lot of people, I went above and beyond to get him more ammo."
How do you feel about moral responsibility for people who fund terrorists? No harm, no foul as long as they're not personally planting bombs?
When Trump doubles the US's support for Israel I hope you get a good view from up on your high horse.
That doesn't make anything the person you responded to, wrong. Not participating is the same as not voting which the consequences were outlined above. Anyone that doesn't vote for Biden because he's not catering to them as some sort of "fuck you" to the system, is a fucking idiot. The thought that somehow the alternative is a better option is asinine. Life's not fair, and sometimes no. Preferred decisions have to be made. In this particular case, there's only one right decision. Every other choice aligns with Trump, Russia, and fascism, and is therefore, the wrong decision.
If trump getting elected isn't going to teach them anything. It's just going to let fascists break the system further, and reduce the chance that things can get better in the future.
If you want to send a message you have to riot.
Removed, keep it civil.
Trump means an intensification of the genocide in Palestine. It will also kill a lot of vulnerable people in the US. It will also help push the right forward elsewhere in the world, since the US is an enormous, hegemonic force.
And you are putting your mark of approval on "lol, I don't give a shit"
Genocide will happen regardless. Israel is going to do it no matter what and it will be worse for the actual people dying if finish the job trump is reelected. But hey who cares because you want more people to suffer to teach democrats a lesson.
Um, has that ever worked? Did voting for Nader do anything in 2000? I mean, besides install Dumbya? Same question about voting for Stein in 2016...
You're wrong, but ok. In a FPtP system, you have two options. Learning these lessons as you put it, is like throwing people under a runaway bus to slow it down. The consequences are far worse when you side with fascism, which is exactly what you're promoting.
Neoliberals aren't going to compromise, they only compromise with facists. Not voting doesn't spark change, it just intensifies the suffering of those vulnerable people. If you want change you have to riot. But you can do that and still vote so long as you avoid a felony conviction.
If those people that already are in a bad place think that voting for the worst candidate, which will for sure make things worse for them, will some how send a message and spark change, those people are idiots. That's not how reality works. Vote for Biden and live to fight another day, or give up and vote fascist. Two options as it has always been.
Too much naivete to address in this post but I'd certainly omit the word "wise". Not liking the options is one thing, refusing to vote for the better one when the other is credibly accused of espionage is fucking dumb. Young people can vote or not vote but if someone lectures me about not taking part in a broken system they're going to get an earful about how they let assholes ruin their lives through inaction. No one's going to get what they want by doing nothing and you will never get a candidate that fits you 100% (and if you do, you're in a cult).
The recasting of voting as some sort of loyalty or allegiance or like a parasocial relationship you're supposed to have with the candidate is weird and not how it works.
You would vote for them because it'll produce a better outcome.
If you want to get the bums out of the Democratic party, so that we can vote for even better outcomes than the ones currently on the table, fuckin' tell me how, because I'm starting to agree with you that it would be super important. But withholding votes for the better guy over the worse guy in the meantime is like refusing to look for a job until the rates of pay that you're seeing on Indeed start to get higher. Simply not how it works and counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish.
Local elections. If no one is far left enough locally for you, there's another option there. Run for office yourself. City counselors and school board positions get you in the system, to really fight it.
Local elections are where your vote matters the most, every time. Get your local friends to vote also and suddenly you're a few percentage points.