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Lady regrets voting for Trump after her terminally ill, undocumented father is detained.
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2025
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Leopards Ate My Face
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Can anyone explain how people with undocumented immigrants in their family were tricked into voting for trump? Makes zero sense to me.
There’s a great book that covers decades of research on this topic. It’s free, too.
https://theauthoritarians.org/
Interesting thanks for the link.
Fascists aren't people. Logic and self interest does not apply.
It's all libidnal desire to not think, a rejection of a world that demands they grow and change. A rejection of complexity, of knowledge, of responsibility.
Critical thinking does not apply. Their whole way of being runs counter to that. There is no self awareness, no imagination¹, not even self preservation.
Even what you and i think of as communication serves a different purpose for them. It's like the husks from 'mass effect' but more so.
¹older versions of fascism actually had imagination. It was a thing. Filtered out; creates too much complexity.
Careful here… while I agree with your anger, you're using the same language used to dehumanize vulnerable populations. Everyone, including horrible people like Steven Miller, deserve basic human dignity. They deserve fairness, due process, and every human right. But unrepentant fascists don't deserve our attention, our sympathy, forgiveness, or reprieve from justice (repentant ones are more complex and not addressed here).
To treat them as less than human is to risk becoming like them. When you fight monsters, you must take extra care to avoid becoming a monster yourself, after all.
There's this thing they do. Basic schoolyard bully shit. Accusing someone else of the thing you're gonna do, so when you do it, the victim sounds like theyre just copying you.
I've read neitzsche, by the way. There's a lot of nuance to what that part actually means. Just quoting it to excuse the libshit you already believed (or think you do) is kind of missing the entire point of that philosophy.
Fully agree with you, and touché on the glib use of the quote. I wasn't trying to invoke the full depth of Nietzsche. I'm merely cautioning against crossing the line between condemning disgusting actions and labeling the people themselves as disgusting. I'm appealing to humility and humanity: a recognition that we aren't inherently "better" than the worst of them. In order to be different from them, we have to act differently.
We don't have to agree, we don't have to sympathize, but failing to see their humanity no matter how unconscionable their actions blurs the line between us and them, and that's a line I prefer to keep as clear as possible.
I am curious what you see in my comment that is "libshit", though. I don't personally see how the invocation of human rights and dignity is liberalism by any reading.
Sorry for the wall of text, but so often your position is espoused by reactionary bigots who think being born the right species is inherently virtuous, that there's a fundamental mystical essential 'humanness' to give us some baseline value, and that nothing else could ever deserve those considerations, and call me a monster for considering fucking nuance, or the ways i am, as a human, capable of sucking. It's uncannily close to fascism and i can get somewhat emotional about it.
You're good. :)
People are hurt right now, and hurt mammals respond defensively (universally AFAIK). Without pretending to understand what's going on in your life right now, I want to let you know that I see you. I'm sure your anger is justified.
And if you think I'm preaching from some pulpit, I'm not. I am using writing this reply to avoid engaging in a situation that has a good chance of triggering some of my own recent trauma. I'm also not someone who uses the word "trauma" in the recent pop-psych sense. I mean it in a clinical sense.
Even though I disagree with some of what you're saying and believe it is counter-productive to the end goals that I think we share (assumption based on your comments), I don't think you're a monster. You deserve the space to be angry and to express that, as does everyone.
If you're willing, I'm interested to learn how I could better express my position succinctly without crossing into the rhetoric that you have read as close to fascism. That's not who I am trying to be and I would like to learn how to do that better. No obligation. I already appreciate your willingness to engage in good faith.
(working on response to other comment, but it's more nuanced)
Same as many other trump voters, pure disillusion and desperation with the status quo. They buy the lie instead.
Immigrant here. No english means same info from the internet. Usual thought process goes :
"Right are working class farmers so left must be the CEOs. Like in my country except they are switched. Makes sense."
They're lying. They weren't tricked. Trump openly and repeatedly showed how he felt about immigrants of all kinds. Everyone knew it, everyone knows it, everyone will always know it.
What actually happened is that these people decided to focus on other things. They told themselves a story about how bad the Democrats are, perhaps, which isn't that hard because there are so many dirty politicians in Washington.
Also, even immigrants can be racist. It's easy enough for someone to think that the other group of "bad" minorities will be targeted, not their own, because they too want someone to spit on. The same thing is true for many poor white MAGA voters too, right? Trump's policies are devastating for rural America, but if you'd rather have hate than healthcare, you're getting what you voted for.
This is a cruel delusion you tell yourself, obviously the people you are referring to exist and there are lots of them and they should be shamed the way you are shaming them but there are far more scared, desperate people who feel as total strangers in a crowd of faces that stare at them as if they don't fit in that you casually throw under the bus along with the genuine fascists.. and make that mistake at our peril my friend.
Plenty of people were tricked, no not everybody knew it, heck tons of people didn't even know Biden had dropped out of the presidential race when they went into vote, and no matter how you feel about it I simply will not let you make negative conclusions about immigrants and other minorities that were tricked into voting against their interests without any actual evidence to back it up.
Cite your sources, or stop claiming that immigrants and others weren't tricked. This is a toxic narrative and it must be stopped in its tracks.
It is our job as leftists to speak to these people who are afraid and say "don't take my word for it, see how these people who claim to support you are trying to kill, maim and destroy you and your families", and NOT our job to lambast these people for entering into a cruel battle royale for reasons we could only really ever judge if we were in their shoes and doing badly.
Yoive set a really really low bar there for personal responsibility. At some stage adults have to take responsibility for their actions.
If you are so disengaged from US Politics you wern't even aware BEFORE voting that Biden wasn't on the ticket, then yes, YOU are to blame for that complete disengagement from democracy. I'm not saying you have to be up to speed with the minutiae of wording across the policy space but to not even be aware of the candidates ?... come on, they shouldn't even be let out of the house, let alone voting ffs.
Colonialism cannot simply subjugate minorities with violent force alone, it isn't enough to turn people against their homes.
Colonialism must divide people with fear and make them pick sides against their heart so that the oppression of Colonialism is distracted from by the oppression of people hurting each other as they try to claw their way up through brutal racist, classist conditions all the while being lectured by white people.
It doesn't have to make sense to you why people would vote against their interests, you must simply understand that it is essential for authoritarian control and thus rich people have gotten very good at convincing people to do it in the US.
You can only have a class based system where certain groups are excluded from enjoying decent lives if there is always a sales pitch being made to a minority group that if they betray their own interests to help white people come out on top again then they will be let into the white club. Whiteness dies without that and yet whiteness can never really let anybody in who isn't white without dying itself.
Focus your anger on the immense incongrituities of this situation not the fact that it hurts people so bad they can't see clearly with their heart anymore.
Morons, they are morons.
I wouldn't rule that out, but I also wouldn't jump straight to that conclusion. Spanish news media in this country is beyond screwed, it skews even more right-wing as a rule than English mainstream media, in my opinion. During the 2020 election, I would watch the news on Univision with my mother-in-law sometimes, and would see them just not translate something a democrat said in English that didn't fit their agenda, misrepresent what they said in the translation, or selectively omit things they said to make their remarks sound much more sinister and authoritarian than what they actually said. They were also constantly pushing right-wing conspiracies that had been debunked weeks or months prior, with no mention of their having been disproven.
I would constantly have my mother-in-law coming to me asking about these old ass conspiracies, because with her only knowing Spanish, that would be the first time she heard of them, and she was shocked we weren't freaking out about it.
More leaning to the morons side, despite how Fox likes to portray immigrants as a monolithic group of rabid socialist and commies backing the Dems so they can destroy the constitution and get gulags up and running, a lot of immigrants from Latin America, Africa and the Caribbean have been fairly conservative, in my experience. A lot of them grew up heavily propagandized by right wing regimes in their home countries, many are much more religious than your average American by birth, and others have had negative experiences with nominally left-wing regimes in their home country that they can't get over. The last one can be kind of understandable, but the other two drive me crazy.
My parents escaped Communist Yugoslavia to Australia. Even I started off right wing until about age 30. Therein I voted Greens (not like the dodgy US Greens BTW) and after a while convinced my parents too.
I am still aware of how the extreme left can become authoritarian as happened in Yugoslavia. Tankies are oblivious. Need to be vigilant whichever party you side with.
i take issue with calling tankies left, them saying they're leftists doesn't make it true. "nazi" comes from "national socialist", but that's obviously not what they actually were.
Am not sure that any label can really work perfectly anyhow. I posed to an Australian Greens Senator in the pub the following:
If Greens ever become one of the two major parties then the ruthless power seekers will gravitate towards your party instead of the current major parties. How will the party be able to spot the wolves in sheep's clothing?
His answer was "I don't know. We discuss that often."
Which struck me as the response of an honest and genuine person.
Seems like we need some left leaning Spanish outlets
This is harsh but it definitely seems like a fundamental lack of critical thinking. I genuinely have trouble understanding this behavior otherwise.
First time maybe, second term there is absolutely no excuse
I read somewhere that none of Trump's talk of mass, indiscriminate deportation was translated, like in their Spanish language ads. All of the Spanish language ads were supposedly geared towards "nooooo lmao we're only going to deport violent criminals and drug lords!"
Hmpf; propa mother fucking ganda style.
/ed:your comment is actually really insightful.