California enslaves 400 prisoners to fight wildfires. : usa

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

This is a land grab. Same as Palestine. Same as Hawaii. They stopped the prescribed burns, the cut the fire department. They gave away the citizens water. To top it off insurance was cut.

This was a land grab.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How weird that Elon Musk didn't build a small fire extinguishing submarine.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Inb4 he calls the firefighters pedophiles

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Ow wow he guardian using a real headline.

Edit: nevermind OP had to change the propaganda.

[+] [email protected] -9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

So I think enslaves is a bit much here.

This is a voluntary program, and I'm not getting the impression it's the do this or we punish you voluntary either.

Meanwhile there are actual prisons that will force labor or severely punish you for refusing. That's enslaved.

It's also possible that the fire fighting is voluntary, but if not this, it would have been other mandatory slave work.

Yes there are slaves in prison, I'm just not entirely sure this specific circumstance is it. They are getting slaves wages though.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

America incarcerates people for a ridiculous time and then lets them 'voluntarily work to shorten their sentence'. It's slavery with a little semantics.

[+] [email protected] -14 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

As long as it's not forced (truly voluntary with no punishment otherwise) it's still not enslaving them.

I'm not saying it's good, but the title has an agenda.

Edit: Actually, the POSTER has the agenda, not the article. OP used the world enslaves. The actual article title is ‘Essential’: nearly 800 incarcerated firefighters deployed as LA battles wildfires. This is why a lot of places have no editorializing the titles rules.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What do you think about indentured servitude being called slavery?

[+] [email protected] -6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

I agree that's slavery.

There is slavery in the US prison system as well.

These prisoners are supposedly doing this specific job voluntarily, with pay. That is not indentured servitude.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

These prisoners are supposedly doing this specific job voluntarily, with pay.

Being voluntary doesn't contradict slavery. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery
Being paid $0.50 an hour, as opposed to $0.00 an hour, is trivial. If the slave-owners of old societies gave their slaves a penny a day, they would still be slaves for all intents and purposes.

While I personally haven't looked into this specific case, there is a very consistent and ongoing history of forced prison labor in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century#Prison_labor

Inmates who refuse to work may be indefinitely remanded into solitary confinement, or have family visitation revoked. From 2010 to 2015 and again in 2016 and in 2018, some prisoners in the US refused to work, protesting for better pay, better conditions, and for the end of forced labor. Strike leaders were punished with indefinite solitary confinement.

That is forced work on an imprisoned person upon threat of punishment, even if they can theoretically decline it. This is a form of slavery, even if they get paid a dollar an hour.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

That is forced work on an imprisoned person upon threat of punishment, even if they can theoretically decline it.

There is a history of this yes, but there is no signs that this is happening with this specific situation. I even said, if this case had that, it would be slavery.

The website for the program, while can't be fully trusted, explicitly states that this is not the case

An incarcerated person must volunteer for the Conservation (Fire) Camp Program and meet all eligibility criteria meant to protect public safety. No one is involuntarily assigned to work in a fire camp. Thus, incarcerated people do not face disciplinary action if they choose not to serve their time in a fire camp.

Edit: And just to be clear - Yes, they might be forced to do something else if not this, but that's probably up to the prison specifically. That alternative would be slavery, but these people are freely volunteering. They were not enslaved into this as OPs editorialized title implies.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Thanks for bringing up that program site (link, for convenience)

Like you said, it's hard to know the internal situation in the prison, so it's reasonable to want to avoid labeling this specific case as slavery or not without further evidence. The title is ultimately subjective, rather than the objective titles a news community typically encourages (by 'subjective', I'm referring to the fact that different worldviews have different interpretations of slavery, even up to the point where many through history consider regular work to be wage slavery based on a holistic analysis of labor in society)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just had some time to look at that wage slavery wiki, I had heard the term, but didn't know it went so far back with that much history around it.

I imagine the only way out of this would be a non poverty level UBI?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah, same when I came across it. I'd assumed it was just some recent hyperbole, but it's a long-used term with serious theoretical backing.

I imagine the only way out of this would be a non poverty level UBI?

UBI is one of the suggestions, one in the reformist category. However, looking at the little progress made by most countries in reforming capitalism over many decades, and in light of the control that the owning class have over politics and economics, many instead propose revolutionary solutions. Obviously, the richest of the rich would prefer to avoid either, and use the mass media to promote UBI as a bandage for capitalism, while using their influence over politicians to avoid even that happening. Unless citizens can gain real power, the promise of UBI is a long road to nowhere. If we ever see it, it will probably only be used as a last compromise to avoid revolution.

The alternative to reformism, the revolutionary solutions, demand a major reorganization of society to control or replace the capitalist wage system. Now, that's the simply summary, but the details stretch across about a century of theoretical and practical discussion and experience, from a broad range of worldviews and circumstances, from partyless direct-democracy anarchist communes to one-party states and everything in-between. I couldn't hope to do it justice here.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Voluntarily risking their life for 5 to 10 bucks a day. Suuure.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If you'd like to provide any proof that these fire fighters are not doing this voluntarily and are coerced into it with some sort of punishment if not, please go ahead and provide it. Specifically this job, not others.

Also, you do realize that many fire fighters across the world are voluntary, in some cases the entire fire department is voluntary. People do risk their lives for this job for free.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

And slaves voluntarily worked on the cotton fields. Great trolling.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yikes, seeing people come out of the woodworks to defend slavery...

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Person from Star Trek instance defending slavery is epsecially baffling, could be Gul Dukat alt account.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

… Founders enter the chat …

[+] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 42 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Lmfao at the absolutely classic .world responses in this thread. "Slavery is good actually". You guys play your role too a T.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Remember, these are the people calling leftists "authoritarians"

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago

The ones in California are probably so glad they just voted in November to keep these prisoners enslaved.

Everyone who voted for that in LA deserves their home to burn, but I feel for all the working class casualties and people who were already homeless.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Slavery should be abolished.

This shouldn't be a controversial beleif in 2025.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (2 children)

There was a proposition to abolish it very recently in California that was rejected by the voters. Commiefornia my balls

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Californians talking about gluten-free free-range gender neutral Yoga: 😚🕊️

Californians talking about homeless people and drug addiction:

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Third Reich actually had way more liberal drug policy than USA have now.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

Fuck I was so disappointed and ashamed reading that in the election results

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 months ago

It is for a lot of people below for some reason.

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