this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2025
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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago

It's hard to extoll the virtues of my chosen system (Pathfinder2e) without comparing it to the issues of where I find 5e lacking.

That said, what I love about 2e is the great encounter balance, almost every single "build" for a class is viable, and when you say "I'm playing a rogue" there are like 4 major types of rogues that all feel like they play differently instead of just some tacked on homebrew class. Adding free archetype rules (supported by the system creators themselves in their books) adds even more customizability.

One of my favorite things is that PF2e makes it feel like it makes encounter design fun again; martials actually have more options than just walk up and attack repeatedly, spacing matters, defenses matter. Most classes have some sort of gimmick that makes them play differently. Been working with my girlfriend to make a swashbuckler for the game I am DMing, and the panache/bravado/finisher mechanics really excite us from a roleplay and gameplay standpoint.

The three action system is way more flexible than the action/bonus action system. You can spend all 3 actions on a huge spell and burn your entire turn. You can move away from enemies to force them to burn an action or flank them to gain bonuses to attack for yourself and allies. You can apply debuffs using your main stats with actions like Demoralize, and still attack or move on your turn.

You constantly gain feats, and they are what defines your character so much. No longer do you get a "choice" of an ASI or feat. You get ones every level. There are ancestry tests from your race, class feats, skill feats, archetype feats. They don't just make you stronger, they instead give you more possible actions, give you unique traits, like being able to fight while climbing or use deception to detect when someone is lying instead of perception.

Also, you can find every rule for free online @ Archives of Nethys. No more being gated by purchases outside of adventure paths.

I could keep going, and I really want to extoll how awesome Golarion is, and the pantheon of gods, and everything. But I will stop here. Would happily answer anyone's questions about the system, I love it. It gave me true passion for tabletop RPGs while DnD5e made me feel really mildly about it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Nope. You play what you want. I, however, will not play any game from a company that demonstrably dislikes its customers. So far, wizards of the Coast and games workshop are on my list. In the electronic space, EA, Microsoft, and Sony.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No D20 games is the rule I have lived by for decades now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I'm of a similar, if slightly more relaxed opinion. I'm old enough to have played AD&D from the art-spined books (published before the yellow spines) and was a vocal supporter of TSR. I actually like the 3.5 ruleset, and I'm happy to play any of the indie projects based on the 3.5 SRD; SG-1 was a particular favorite of mine. Just don't ask me to support WotC today either directly or indirectly, especially after this last attempt at a power grab.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

I'll add that every games does not suit to everyone. So, games that might please D&D players that I like (and that nobody already talked about in this thread):

- Cryptomancer: It's D&D for nerds, with a simpler system (or a sort of inverted Shadowrun). Like, imagine D&D but magic works like infosec. Yeap, that's it.

- Monster of the Week: A PbtA game to emulate supernatural horror TV shows and it's really easy to make it work in a fantasy setting. It might feel more like a Witcher game than a D&D game, tho (you investigate after a supernatural monster, track them to get them down). In any case, the PbtA family is rich and if players are curious of other systems, it's probably one of the easiest PbtA to try when you come from D&D : it's really easy to setup (30min to make a party at the beginning of the session, session 0 included), it's one-shot oriented and it has (I think) the more D&D-esques combat mechanics if all PbtAs.

- Outgunned: It's a very cool game with gambling mechanics which want to emulate action movies. It's easy to do Heroic Fantasy with it as "classes" are just "roles" and "tropes" and there is already some actions flicks (flavor-oriented optional rules) to play wuxia, swashbuckling and sword & sorcery. Also, it has the best mechanics for chases I ever seen and you may want to borrow that in you D&D sessions. Even for one session, it's worth playing (and there is two free kickstart sets with rules, premade characters and a scenario to try it !)

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Okay but as long as we are complaining about shit we see on RPG forums

"I wish I could do $thing in DnD"

"$otherSystem has a very cool subsystem for $thing"

"Omg how dare you"

Had this conversation enough times to make it a pet peeve of mine

Anyway the only thing about 5e that does suck is Wizards of the Coast. Otherwise it's fine. It's just fine. You can have fun with it.

I'm more of a Pathfinder 2e guy tho.

(And pf2 is basically a more advanced take on what 5e was doing so....)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

5e needs a better way to balance encounters than Challenge Rating. It also has important rules for players in the DM book. Both of which are problems you can work around.

Yeah, it's basically fine. It got a lot of new people interested in RPGs (and Critical Role certainly helped, too). If they're all now looking for other systems to play, that's fine, too.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Hexxen is pretty amazing. The rules are extremely simple, but maintain enough complexity to still be fun and it knows what it wants to be and focuses on its core goals. Investigation is fun and engaging, combat is fast and dangerous, but not necessarily deadly and there are numerous interesting character classes that you can combine to build exactly the witch hunter you want.

Other than that, I'm working on my own system with a combat experience similar to DnD, but the social complexity and character customisability of The Dark Eye.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (3 children)

No no no ... 5e 2024 sucks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

4e already sucked. 3 Series were the last good ones.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

All you've done is permanently write off any opinion you have on a replacement. It's insanely arrogant to push your own opinion as fact but even more so when the thing you're shitting on is something people actively enjoy and then expecting anyone will pay attention to a thing you say.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

No, 5e sucks. And it's most obvious when you play on level 1. DnD is a superhero sim with paper cutouts for humans. When you leave out the super powers, then the characters can't really do anything. Like... at all.

Combat is DnD's only fleshed out system. Everything else is just "roll a D20" and sometimes add your proficiency modifier depending almost entirely on your class. Give me 20 different bards and I bet 18 of them will have a 90% overlap in the proficiencies they choose.

During combat, the wizard throws fireballs, the cleric casts spiritual weapon and the barbarian rages. That's cool, interesting and diverse. During investigations the wizard rolls an investigation check, the cleric rolls an investigation check and the barbarian does nothing because they dumped wisdom. That's boring.

That's why DnD sucks!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Dunno. In my 5e game the Sentinel, Guardian, and Consular get force powers.

In another 5e game the group piloted techs and fought giant monsters (Pacific Rim).

In a few months we will be running Return of the Living Dead 5e.

You just sound burnt out on the fantasy trope, not 5e.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

So, what you're telling me is 5e works well for combat. Which is exactly what I wrote.

But combat isn't the only aspect of a tabletop roleplaying game. Far from it. Sure, if all you want to do is play out your superhero fantasy of killing ever bigger foes, then DnD works well enough I guess. But for me, that gets boring real fast. I want drama, mystery, social encounters, wilderness survival, interesting travelling etc. DnD does none of this.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

During investigations the wizard rolls an investigation check, the cleric rolls an investigation check and the barbarian does nothing because they dumped wisdom

You might be playing it wrong.

During investigations Wizard checks the books in the library, references his own notes, chats up local researcher community. Creates and sends Arcane Eye, spreads his familiars, tries Clairvoyance.

Cleric visits a local church, talks to the priests and churchgoers, prays to the Divine, maybe convinces the town to join her in the crusade against the target and lits the town on fire, while villages attack the nobleman mansion looking for the culprit and plunder.

Barbarian goes to the local tavern to drink with the local guards. Helps local elder find his kitten. Maybe talks to a local hunter and they bond over a bear hunt they just finished, maybe about the beauty of wilderness... One thing leads to another, a secret touch, a hidden look, a moment of courage, a stolen kiss... What I was talking about?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yes, that's called roleplaying. And there's nothing, not a single line in any book that supports any of this! Just imagine if DnD combat only consisted of one melee attack skill and one ranged attack skill. You could still roleplay that your ranged attack is a fireball, but it would still get boring real fast!

Everything about this scenario works pretty much exactly the same if the Barbarian goes to the library and references his notes, the wizard visits the local church and convinces the town to to join their crusade and the cleric goes to the tavern, sves the kitten, drinks with the guards, etc. Every character does everything exactly the same.

Let me give you a counter example in a system that actually does this well. In The Dark Eye, the wizard goes to the local library because they have several talents and skills that help them find and organize information in books, the cleric talks to the local clergy who respect him du to his "social standing" value and "clergical vow" skill. The barbarian actually put some points into "carousing" which makes them a solid drinker and their "local contact" skill may give them a pointer towards the old lady with the cat problem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I see what you're saying, but... To me that's okay? I don't need to follow the book for all that shiet? You don't need to overspecialize on your character sheet.

In DnD/Pathfinder you grab the Lore/Knowledge/etc skill for a wide range of actions. The nobility will respect your cleric because it's a cleric, has a symbol of the order, ecclesiastic rank from the roleplaying, but if she can't persuade for shiet, she'll loose that initial respect quickly.

Have you ever played Shadowrun? I think I left that system the moment my DM decided to reference table for jumping out of a riding car by / brand / speed / manoeuvre / skill level to determine my damage.

The Dark Eye is that German thingy, right? I never liked it as a system, it felt constraining. On the other hand, my favourite system is Fudge, so we might just like different things.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

5e is fantastic. It presents the standard combat-centric D&D rules, and provides a lot of freedom for players and DMs to fill in whatever rules they find most enjoyable.

Levels 1-3 are designed for the express purpose of onboarding new players, so complaining that it doesn't fully represent D&D, is pretty silly - it's supposed to be simplified.

I will agree with the facts behind your comments on the skill system, if not the exaggerations. I would prefer a looser system, akin to those from Fate, Cypher or Daggerheart, to allow for more creative freedom.

D&D doesn't suck - it's a combat centric system, as it always has been.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Everything you just said is opinion and subjective.

The only thing that sucks here is you for believing that your opinion is a universal truth and the arrogance of believing that everyone else is wrong.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

The only thing subjective here is the very first sentence. Everything else is either fact and enforced by the way DnD is designed or an example to illustrate said fact.

What exactly is subjective about the fact that DnD doesn't have any depth or variety when it comes to anything besides combat?

Oh, and before you answer. Homebrew and cinematic encounters are not part of DnD as a system and using them in your argument will only strengthen my point.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Dungeon crawl classic, start with 3-5 level 0 chars each and hope the best rolled character survives the initial onslaught. Using magic is dangerous, a miscast spell could leave you disfigured or worse. Thick boy rule book.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

It's also fun that critical success and critical fail has the player (or enemy) rolling for a random result from a table.

It was also pretty funny when one of my players cast color spray from the back line, but they cast it to well, so it actually did damage and almost killed a player

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You can easily convert them to 5e

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

And lose the entire fun in the process...

Spike trap? I have spider climb/fly speed! Enemies sneaking about in the dark? I have darkvision! Resources running low and no safe place to take a rest? I cast Tiny Hut!

DnD takes the entire fun out of dungeon crawling just so that a single person can win the d*ck measuring contest of "I'm the greatest" at any given moment

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I was introduced to flyweight RPGs a few years back and I absolutely love what they can do in the hands of a creative group.

Roll for Shoes is about as minimal as it gets. You will need one D6, and something to track player inventory. The game world is best started by the GM in the abstract, letting the players fill in the world's details through creative use of questions that prompt die rolls. This is fantastic for players that want to stretch their improv skills.

Lasers & Feelings has a tad more structure. Everyone has exactly one stat that sits on a spectrum of "lasers" to "feelings". The difficulty of challenges in the game sit on the same spectrum. Depending on the nature of the challenge and what the player's stat is, a single D6 roll decides the outcome. Everything else is role-playing in what is encouraged to be a Trek-like setting.

In my experience, Roll for Shoes usually turns into a cartoon-esque "let's see what else is in my backpack" affair, that usually ends with everything on fire (because of course it does). Lasers & Feelings typically devolves into Lower Decks. All of these are positives in my book - I'd play again in a heartbeat.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

You might also like TWERP.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I never got a campaign off the ground, but Palladium had, I thought, a great system.

I loved the approach to alignment (good, selfish, evil) and awarding xp for roleplaying, clever ideas, and problem solving, rather than simply killing an enemy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I consider this a good vs bad DM issue, not necessarily a game system issue. A good DM will offer XP for non-combat situations too even if it's not in a handbook. I guess I might have a different view on D&D vs other gaming systems because my group started with AD&D and just changed all the shit we didn't like. It was only D&D by name after a while. We had a mana system (spell mats are the worst), custom classes / races / spells, and a lot of fun. The most important part isn't the game system, it's good people to play with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

The Palladium books I had were from the 70s so it felt more like a novel approach. But I love the mechanics and worldbuilding of RPGs in general, pen and paper or otherwise, so all in all I enjoy the adaptive homebrews just as much.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 15 minutes ago) (6 children)

Mutants and Masterminds is kind of interesting. I like how it's designed so character creation is entirely point buy. There's no classes. No spells. You pay for skills and abilities directly. There's basic powers, and modifiers you can use to make them more interesting. It's also geared towards balance as opposed to simulation, which means you can make whatever type of character you want instead of having to stick with what's optimal.

Unfortunately, it's not well-done. For example, they frequently forget the game uses a log scale and cut numbers in half. Someone with a Dodge rank of -2 who is Vulnerable has their active defenses halved, which brings their Dodge rank up to -1. Equipment is 3 to 4 times cheaper than Devices, with the only differences being flavor (Equipment is something a normal person can get) and a different method of calculating Toughness that very often makes Equipment stronger. I ended up making a list of house rules trying to fix all of them (and admittedly including a few alternate rules that aren't clearly better or worse) that's so long that it would probably be easier to make a new RPG.

I don't suppose I can get any advice on something I would like? My requirements are:

  1. A point buy system that lets you make any character you want.
  2. Costs are based on making characters balanced, and not how literally expensive a piece of equipment would be and that sort of thing.
  3. Must be balanced as far as reasonably possible without massive flaws like M&M.
  4. I'd really like having a wide variety of characters you can make and things you can do. Make it so you can just play a Swarm, or a character of any size class, or anything else you can think of.

EDIT:

  1. Must be free. I'm not going to pay $20 for a system I don't even know I'll like. And honestly, I'm too cheap to pay for anything I don't really need.
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