this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024

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Welcome to the femosphere, the latest dark, toxic corner of the internet… for women (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

125 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

The “femosphere,” a growing online space for women, mirrors the misogynistic “manosphere” with toxic ideologies, including anti-gender equality views and strategies to “conquer” men.

The term describes communities like Female Dating Strategy and “dark feminine” influencers who reject liberal feminism, advocating traditional gender roles as empowering.

“Femcel” influencers urge their followers to give up on gender equality and use men for financial gain – in the name of feminism.

Critics warn these spaces mix conservative and feminist ideas, creating “anti-feminist feminism” that appeals to those disillusioned with mainstream feminism.

While less linked to violence than the manosphere, researchers caution against its potential for radicalization and harm.

(page 2) 50 comments

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Thankfully this is a community that was left on reddit. Same with the manosphere.

There seems to be a lack of gender culture war bs on lemmy that you see on a lot of other platforms. It's good that there is a pretty progressive consensus on gender here. Probably enforced by a legion of trans people, and to that I say thank you for your service.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The article doesn't really address the brand of revenge "feminism" I've seen on that sub and mostly frames it as women who want to become trad wives because it's easy. What I've seen is that they basically want to find sugar daddies while also really, really hating men in general, especially the "low status" ones.

How did they get to that point? I suspect it's a variation of mean world syndrome, fueled by ideas like the poisonous M&M analogy (understood not as a call to be cautious but to treat every man as if they were bad) and seeing men and women as as coherent classes engaging in warfare. All watered down to simple talking points that fit in a punchy tweet. If men as a group do/don't do this for me then it's okay to be awful to any individual one because he's the enemy too.

Hateful, dehumanizing thinking. So yes, they do mirror the Andrew Tate dudes pretty much exactly, including being trans-exclusive.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

There was one female content creator who I was passively keeping an eye on who just went alt right. She blames other women for having more the ten partners for her inability to find/keep a boyfriend.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Sounds like a snazzy new bunch of nonsense that's just describing the age old concepts of prostitution and being a gold digger.

In a way they're acting as feminists by proving that girls can indeed do everything boys do, including being assholes on the Internet for fame and fortune.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Feminism is about equality. This is not feminism

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

Idk, "equally shitty" does have equality in it. 🤔

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

Yeah nothing new here. Just regression.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I feel bad for all the dumb guys who get robbed blind by all these con artist grifters. Whether it's someone like Andrew Tate or some OF model, they're getting taken for a ride.

If there's some young man reading this who has or is considering giving money to a manosphere grifter or some cam model, just know they don't know you, they don't care about you, they only want your money. You're nothing but a mark to them. Get off the Internet, go to church, or go to school, or to the library, or do some volunteer work in your community. Meet a nice girl, in real life, treat her right, and cultivate a real, lasting relationship.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, don't give your money to people give it to the church.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Can't tell if you dropped the /s here or not...

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[+] [email protected] -30 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Irrelevant to this post.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I think it's relevant, but I admit I failed to acknowledge a critical part of this situation: the ways in which women are harmed by these circumstances. Obviously, there are the direct effects of the kinds of misogyny peddled by men like Tate, but there are also the less direct and mostly unintentional effects of the broader movement that helped create the conditions that made the manosphere possible.

Liberal feminism tried to liberate women, but unintentionally ended up confining them to a different kind of prison, one in which they would remain the person primarily responsible for keeping house and caring for children, but in which they would also be the sole financial provider, as well. Liberal feminism convinced women that it would be liberating for them to take on both traditional, household gender roles, but all it did was saddle women with an even greater burden.

Meanwhile, the movement to make women independent left a lot of men lonely, bitter, and resentful, ideal for manosphere grifters and parasocial cam models to exploit. It really was a scenario that ended up making essentially everyone worse off. It also absolved men of any of their previous responsibilities.

I think people need to abandon the idea that freedom comes from independence. Independence can be liberating, but it can also be isolating, and burdensome. A person who lives totally self sufficiently, alone in a cabin in the woods is independent, but also lonely and saddled with the entire burden of survival. Many hands make the burden light, fewer hands make it heavy.

Where liberalism fails time and time again is in its antisocial tendencies. Liberalism's focus on the atomized individual so often disregards relationships of interdependence, or even sees them as antithetical or hostile to individual freedom. But this mentality ignores the inherently social nature of our species, as well as the absolute material necessity of social arrangements.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

they would remain the person primarily responsible for keeping house and caring for children, but in which they would also be the sole financial provider, as well.

Huh? Sole? House-husbands? I don't think I've ever met one. The norm across the vast majority of working- and professional-class people I've encountered is for both partners to be working or, if wealthy enough (the minority) for the woman to be the stay-at-home child-raiser.

I could definitely imagine many, if not most women being disgruntled at the current socio-economic situation (at least in the US) where they're expected to both work at a paid job full-time (just like their spouse) while also doing a majority of the unpaid child-rearing work.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

The norm across the vast majority of working- and professional-class people I've encountered is for both partners to be working

I'm sure that's true, but I was thinking specifically about single, working mothers. You're right, though, it's not only single mothers, these realities affect women who are in relationships as well.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (5 children)

The gender war continues, and my nonbinary ass is sitting back and not getting involved.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"If there's war between the sexes then there'll be no people left..."

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

First they came for the gendered minorities..

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ace here. I feel you. I may be male presenting but I have no interest in anything beyond platonic, and even then that’s a stretch.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I've got some ace friends, we all see the insanity in the world, then focus on playing a board game. Current favorite: Terraforming Mars

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Great game! I just played it yesterday for the first time in at least a year and it's still amazing.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (4 children)

The best part about being in the middle is that both teams hate you! /s

I personally identify as a non-conforming man and the amount of hate I get from traditionalists on both sides is deeply disappointing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, people feel threatened by any behavior that doesn't conform to their norms. I practice apathy towards their attitudes, and keep an eye out for violence.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Ditto, given my ADHD, love of fantasy and other things I've always been an outsider. Their judgment is their problem - my partner loves me as I am and that's not only the opinion I care about the most but also the only one that's really relevant since I've no intention of forming either a platonic or romantic relationship with any hater.

The only real thing that hurts is when my expression hurts my loved ones. I recently had to go to a funeral in the south and I dressed normally for my flights and transit but eschewed a skirt and wore slacks to the ceremony.

Thankfully as a large man, while I'm a friendly giant, I am a giant and physical threats are extremely rare. But I do have trans friends who have faced real danger.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago

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