this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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Fedigrow

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To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

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I noticed today an occurence of a user complaining about Lemmy being worse then Reddit. The modlogs shows how toxic they are. When this was pointed out, the user deletes their account

https://web.archive.org/web/20241217101003/https://sopuli.xyz/post/20276017?scrollToComments=true

Deleted account: https://kbin.melroy.org/u/Pyrin

This seems to address the question that comes up once in a while "a public modlog is only useful for mods" (https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141), while we can see from this example that it can also be useful for toxic users.

As you may know, [email protected] is a community dedicated to calling out power tripping mods.

Should we consider having a similar community for toxic users?

There is already [email protected], but I feel like the "lore" is more about large-scale events (like the cats wave recently) than specific users events.

Edit: Updated the title, and put the emphasis on creating a community to call out toxic users rather than "dunking" on the users that was banned.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't want to come off all self-righteous as in "PieFed has that already"... but OTOH it's relevant that, yeah, PieFed has something for that already.😄 It is described at https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/, and I think its way too sensitive atm, labeling users of comics in particular as potentially troublesome bc they post more than comment, but anyway it seems relevant here as an attempt to do what you are saying: to allow for some measure of an account's "reputation" across the Fediverse, similar to what those aforementioned communities do irt mods to let people know about stuff that they may find pertinent as they make decisions about what to do about it - like not post to certain communities and instead help others grow. In short it's a tool that helps shorten the learning curve rather than make each person have to do all that work all entirely on their own.

So someone downvotes twice as often as they upvote?

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Someone has twice as many heavily-downvoted comments as positive or neutral? Also a paddling. It also helps provide additional choices beyond merely a moderator's power to "remove vs. allow" - one day a user could perhaps make their own thresholds, or like automatically collapse (to deemphasize, but while still retaining) a comment from such a user. Or not - I have some of that turned OFF at PieFed, but it's awesome that it's there if someone were to want that.

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Someone has a brand-new account merely hours old? That's NOT a paddling, but it is worth its own unique icon to let recipients know that they are dealing with a newborn (ofc they could be an alt) who may not realize how the Fediverse works.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

So someone downvotes twice as often as they upvote?

What's wrong with that? I find it much easier to downvote than to upvote, but most threads or comments I don't vote at all. It's like me reviewing my Steam games. I barely ever do it, but usually I do negative reviews, because you see all what is wrong in a game and want to voice your frustration about it.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Na, what will it do apart from bringing trolls and other asshats more attention? Attention is what they want.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Do we really need to do public shaming?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago (3 children)

You're not the first one to point it out, maybe I should remove this post.

To answer your question, as I said in another comment, I wanted to use this example for when people ask “how does a public modlog make Lemmy better than Reddit”, which is a question that comes up quite once in a while: https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141

We also public shame mods all the time on [email protected], no sure why potential trolls could not be called out too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It'd need a heavy mod hand methinks, otherwise people'll just be forming gangs on a mf after they get butthurt inna argument. I don't have first-hand experience but i have been around the Internet a long time, figger there's probably a reason most places don't allow doxxing and it's not cuz "it's wrong" and more cuz it's "exhausting" to clean

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Is [email protected] really though? My one experience there I left a pretty tame comment against what looked like mod overreach to me and I got ganged up on over it and I think my comment was deleted. I really didn't understand. Felt like the most Reddit moment ever when it happened.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago

People who obsess over such things tend to be super cliquish. You probably posted about a mod/community that wasn't one of their normal targets.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

the power tripping bastards community often goes off the rails and becomes a hate fest, many many many times, people just go there to relitigate and rage, and the brigading gets out of hand.

A few times we identify a real mod issue, but the current format is chaotic

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Interesting.

While there are definitely issues sometimes (but then the mods of the community usually lock the threads), it's been quite useful to show how biased some moderation actions are sometimes performed.

It also allows to suggest alternatives. [email protected] definitely took off after a few reports about [email protected]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Sure, there is utility, but right now it is less about "did a mod follow the posted rules" and more about "do I agree with the rule".... which we have seen in the last week's news cycle, power tripping bastards has gotten super toxic.

The forum to moderate moderators needs strong moderation :)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Fedigrow:

To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

How is this post relevant to this community? You posted it here because you're a moderator so you know it won't be removed?

Dunking on someone who was (rightfully) banned isn't the kind of post that fosters good community interactions. The moderation system works, that's great. Can we not give more oxygen to the troll's commentary?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

As I stated on the OP

Not sure where to post this, but I guess this can be seen as “growing the nice atmosphere of Lemmy”

I was also suggesting to maybe open another community for this kind of reports, so that fit indeed the purpose of Fedigrow.

Dunking on someone who was (rightfully) banned The moderation system works, that’s great. Can we not give more oxygen to the troll’s commentary?

In this case, it doesn't seem like they were banned, just that they deleted their account. Not 100% sure as Mbin interface might look different from Lemmy (where "banned" is visible when someone is banned).

So it's not sure that it was the moderation system that worked in this case, more the modlog.

In any case, this post can be used as an evidence when people as "how does a public modlog make Lemmy better than Reddit", which is a question that comes up quite once in a while: https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

As much as I do enjoy the Fediverse, I feel as if the intent of this post was more about dunking on an admittedly bad-faith user to show off how cool we are, and not the bit about growing the nice atmosphere of Lemmy. Although to be fair I'm not sure I understand what you mean by

I guess this can be seen as “growing the nice atmosphere of Lemmy”

so I could be wrong. Would you mind elaborating?

I feel it would have been better to just let this guy get banned and forget about it, or to start a post with the title being along the lines of

how does a public modlog make Lemmy better than Reddit

instead of what we have, which summarizes the specific actions of the user who deleted their account.

I am glad a toxic user was banned, no sympathy there, but I feel as this thread is a "Lemmy good Reddit and Redditors bad" party and it was started with this intent, with the thing about modlogs being cool being tacked on after the fact to try to legitimize the post. Yes, I prefer Lemmy to Reddit, but I'd rather keep Fedigrow a nice mature space about how to grow our numbers instead of a place to dunk on the larger, competing site. Maybe [email protected] would have been more appropriate space.

I came from the Reddit migration too, and back when I was on Reddit there were some pretty nice people over there. There were some awful people too but you get that with every population. Let us not do the whole "Lemmy cool kids, Reddit all neckbeards!" crap, please.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Just updated the title and the body post, let me know what you think

Edit: hopefully the edits federate, if not: https://feddit.org/post/5768311

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Feels much better, thank you!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago
[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Thank you for your comment.

so I could be wrong. Would you mind elaborating?

The idea would be indeed to create a community that allows to call out toxic and troll users such as the one in the OP. That community would allow to make Lemmy a better place, in the same way than [email protected] allows to reduce the power tripping mods.

how does a public modlog make Lemmy better than Reddit

I'll edit the title with something along those lines.

Let us not do the whole “Lemmy cool kids, Reddit all neckbeards!” crap, please.

I see. That's definitely not the intent, I'll make sure to rephrase the title and post accordingly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I never participated in callout communities myself, so I'm not sure how effective they are. As an outsider looking in, who has never personally dealt with a toxic user or mod before, it seems like a drama farm. If callout communities actually work as intended, though, or at least successfully warn people about genuinely problematic users/mods (instead of just being a tool to gain public support against civil, behaving users you do not like/a mod who justifiably banned you), then I suppose it's worth creating.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago

It also allows to suggest alternatives. [email protected] definitely took off after a few reports about [email protected]

Similarly, the .ml communities being less active thn the other instances version nowadays probably comes from post like https://feddit.nl/post/16246531

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Bro looked in the mirror and got such a hard whiplash he astral-projected into a parallel universe where he's a paragon of virtue

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That's a great example of a toxic redditor coming to the fediverse hoping people would tolerate his behaviour, but surprise surprise:

we don't

...and gets banned lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

They didn't even get banned (except from SJW, but that's only one instance), I think they just deleted their account

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Could be, but I also thinking about a specific community to call out bad faith users or trolls. Kind of [email protected] but for users

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Who would moderate it without an inherent bias?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago

Very good question.

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