Why do you believe said government is worth saving? Is it particularly robust or advanced in some way? If it's the country that I'm assuming, your government is currently functioning exactly as it was designed, and the incoming administration is not the coup you seem to think it is.
this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Maybe it's not worth saving but I don't think it should be dismantled too the advantage of an adversary.
The adversary gets a much, much more significant advantage from holding your government captive and using it to further their interests. If they wanted to simply remove it from play, their angle of attack would differ.
Their angle of attack is the only angle. If they ever had full control they would no longer be an adversary. Destroying the government holding them back would be to their every advantage and is their end goal.
Assuming we’re thinking of the same place, you have to deal with a large group of people who have been fooled, and are about to get very angry and need a target they can reach for their anger. Highlighting mid to high level members of their party leadership as the people to blame allows them to hold their great leader blameless, protecting their egos, while at the same time ripping down the pillars that prop up that same leader. Calling for new blood to support… whatever leader you’re talking about, and voting out “those idiots that aren’t giving him what he needs and so we all are suffering” allows the malleable followers to self destruct the party apparatus like ants eating away the bones of an elephant.
Manipulation in revolution is how we get a dictatorship.
Weaponized incompetence?
Not as effective as weaponized competence but use what ya got
Georgia?
"and the only thing that would expidite its destruction is a violent revolution". feels like sorta a leading question to me.
Yeah, kind of incorrect too. I should edit it, "to say and violent revolution would only expedite it's destruction."
ok so the bias is away from violence rather than toward it?
That was the attempt
Why?
With combat.
News at 11.
The goal of the hostile country is to cause chaos and conflict. It does not care if an insider or outsider does it.
The only way to win is not to play.
You say that as if it's an option for everyone in said country.
As long as you're alive, you have options. And the majority of them are usually better than just giving up and dying, either by a civil war or under the occupation forces.
The only thing not clear is the timing. How close is the shit from the fan at any particular moment?
So are you advocating for action or "not playing" (ie rolling over)? Make up your mind.
Personally, I'm a big fan of leaving. When shooting, or barbed wires are imminent, just pack your family, some essentials and go have a long boring life somewhere else.
Again - not an option for the majority of people. Not only does that require significant amounts of money, it also assumes the place you're going is accessible (eg open borders, etc) You're advocating from a position of privilege and/or ignorance of you think "just leave" is a reasonable suggestion.
Water the tree of liberty with the blood of the tyrant
Israel?
Bigger...
A lot of the initial popularity of Isis in Iraq was due to very similar factors. This was an uprising of a complex mix of people and goals. Most involved at first were established leaders who were patriotic and tribes who were oppressed by the new and invalid government.
This of course was airbrushed in the west and countless thousands were killed by Americans during the uprising.
Syria was destabilized due to the mass death.
The main takeaway here is that force often seems like an answer but that can go badly
If your friend is willing to make the effort to combat this, she should get organized. She should find like-minded people, act locally to gain political power, and create a stronghold where the illegitimate government will face resistance. She should base this around ideological lines, rather than willingly subscribing to what experienced members in established political elites in her country are trying to make her say or do. She should write down whether values are and make sure to keep them close at all times, knowing that she just might be successful and that power corrupts.
She should not give up hope, but she should give up the belief that others will change anything for her. She needs recognize that her country is already broken, and she needs to act to be the change.
She needs to recognize that she's not powerless. She can make a difference.
Likewise, she needs to recognize that it's a long and painful process. It needs to start locally, and it might always stay local. But that is fine.
She needs to realize strength is in the community. Building the community of like minded people working for local action is crucial. She'll be disappointed in them at times, but she'll just have to keep going. There's power in community.
At least that's what I think I'd advice her. But I don't know your friend or her situation, obviously.
She says she grateful for your thoughtful response and did not intend to be rude but asked if you had any examples of this working. I told her that would be rude because you're a very kind thoughtful person so don't mind her.
She'll be happy to hear that it has worked on numerous occasions throughout history! After the fall of Fascism in Europe, people in many countries got together and created strong welfare states in the post war period. Some were more successful than others, but even in the ultraconservative UK they managed to create a national health service that hs proven difficult to kill off.
Sadly, I'll have to break to her that the fight never ends. The second you stop fighting for progress, some asshole will pop up and try to instill feudalism again. After a generation or two people tend to forget the ongoing nature of this threat, and it seems we haven't managed to come up with ways to permanently get rid of it, despite our best efforts following the French and American revolutions.
Maybe the time has come to go back to the drawing board, and rethink some of the decisions that were made back then. Jefferson said every generation should have its own constitution. Maybe he was right.
are you guys getting a divorce
We just want you to be happy and every thing right now is really taking a toll
It has worked after a violent struggle forced the system to change or gave opportunities for previously oppressed voices to come into power.
Yeah, generally people need quite a bit of nudging before they get off their asses.
So now seems like a good time to start - no reason to wait for things to get even worse. This is why I stress the community building - it only really requires people to fight back, but it does require people to fight back.
Yes: all modern democracies.
First all, glad your friend recognized this.
I found this article to be a prescient good grounding: https://wagingnonviolence.org/2024/11/10-things-to-do-if-trump-wins/
I'm finding local communities to participate in (potlucks, picnics, movie night, anything that doesn't spend more money). Sending holiday cards to my neighbors, anything to connect and integrate because what comes next will test all our bonds.
Ask Rylanor
Being the second time I've seen this i did a little research. So is like trump fulgrim?
Rylanor's situation just seems similar to ours;
- everyone he cares about is morphed into a parody of themselves or dead
- The authority that he trusted betrayed him deeply
- He only survived (Drop Site Massacre) by allying with others of the same cause
Bonus if your name is Luigi:
- Perfectly executed a premeditated attack on the ones who wrong him