The problem of the US is that you might lose more voters by dumping Israel than you'd gain by supporting Palestine.
this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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Is there actual polling to that effect?
There are some polls that show roughly 35 to 60 percent of US voters backing the sale of arms to Israel, depending on demographics, but there is a very clear divide between Republican and Democrat support so it's disingenuous to say a candidate will lose more support than they gain because that depends on which candidate.
A lot of these polls also use loaded questions like "who is responsible for this conflict" with the two choices being Hamas and Israel, which doesn't really capture any of the nuance of the situation or represent the beliefs of the person answering the question.
Gaza is hardly even an issue on the ballot, you're picking between slow genocide and fast genocide.
Slow genocide is better though. We all get that right?
Certainly gives us more time to try to do something about it, yeah.
99 more years at the current rate.
Your vote only actually matters if you're in a wing state. If you aren't you should be voting PSL or greens.
vote blue to start turning the state into a swing state. Definitely don't vote green as they are on the record of trying to make trump win
How will voting for the Dems make New York into a swing state?
Not doing it might
Bernie is such a good guy. The Dems have done him dirty so many times, they are currently continuing to support many harmful policies but he understands what's at stake and he puts all of that aside to do the best he can.
He doesn't have to do this. He's 83 years old and while his cognitive health is outstanding for his age, someone his age doesn't need to be on this grind for us. He probably won't stop until he's forced to due to his health. I love the guy and it's a shame we weren't given the chance to see him take the presidency.
He is a leader.
I remember that old footage of him in Burlington in the 70's, talking to random kids in the mall about issue, asking them was important to them--drug policy, free speech, good schools--and just talking to them about how they make a difference. From the bully pulpit, he would have been transformative.
Wish the push was to tell the Democratic party not to engage with genocide not to tell us we have to suck it up to vote for genocide anyway.
He's said this too... but of course you don't actually care about that fact.
Ok... Just saying it's sad. Do you not think it's sad?
Edit: actually no what the fuck is this reply? What fact don't I care about? That Bernie agrees that this is fucked. What did I say that you take issue with?
Jesus Christ. I'm so tired of you genocide minimizers
The reply is you will continue to say not to vote for even the best options for what you claim you want. It's stupid.
Put it a different way: if both candidates are willing to turn a blind eye to genocide, who do you think you'd have a better chance lobbying to change their stance? One support a cease fire and a two state solution. The other doesn't think a two start solution could work, and that Israel needs to do whatever they need to do to get the war over with.
I'm clear both are for the extermination of Palestinians and will support Israel in all their wars. I think we're kidding ourselves acting like the difference between the two on those issues is substantial at all. They both are lobbied to so much by Israel's pac
Based on this i'd think its harder to lobby the Dems but I really think neither party is movable on their positions in respect to Israel.
Totally agree that Kamala will be better on everything else though. Just find it fucked that we're told to suck it up on the pro genocide stances.
First of all, at this point people in the US should vote against Trump for their safety, and that means in the current political system they have to vote for Harris. That's the reality they have to face. The Trump party has made fascist announcements that are real and people should expect them to be made into real actions.
The problem is that the Democrats frankly have abysmal messaging and are drifting to the right further and further while using Trump as a threat to their voters. They adopt anti-immigrant policies and are distancing themselves from pro-LGBT stances, saying it's the states decision. Both these issues as well as demands for a ceasefire poll exceptionally well, but the Harris campaign seemingly don't want the edge. With all this they are signaling that right wing worries about immigrants and trans people are valid, although that's absolutely not the case, and leave people to decide for example "do I want anti-immigrant light or extra harsh anti-immigrant?" when everybody says immigrants are an issue. This is unacceptably stupid and risking the vote. And that's ignoring the elephant in the room that progressive policy like health care is exceptionally popular and using that as counter messaging would win her voters.
We've seen how popular the Democrats got after Harris took over and Walz got nominated. It signaled change. Now all the Democrats say that it's gonna be the same old as usual treading on and the same bad argument vote us or you'll get a dictatorship. I'm not denying Biden dropping out had nothing to do with the surge of popularity, but back then we also had comments like here, basically declaring any dissent from supporting a decrepit old man as the candidate as heresy. Now there are again, only Yes men here saying if you criticize Harris you're a bot or a Trump ass eater. What is wrong with you?
Finally, I have the creeping suspicion that Democratic establishment people don't fear a fascist Trump administration themselves personally as much as the population has to. Trump announces he will go after his enemies, Latinos and trans people (probably all queer people actually). He has anti women's health and rights messaging all over his campaign. But that doesn't seem to be a risk for people higher up in the party. I suspect that when you're rich you don't have to worry about abortion bans or HRT access. And if Trump threatens them with violence they always have money they can throw at him. It's much more comfortable to run a risky neo liberal and right wing platform against a fascist if you can jump ship later on.
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