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Why use immutable Linux ? And which one ? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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What are the pros and cons for desktops ? EDIT : Thanks all. I'll try Silverblue, bazzite and more.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

The only benefit for a normal desktop user, who never plans to write code (or deploy stuff on multiple PCs) is that immutability makes updates far safer and easier.

However this is the single largest weakness the Linux desktop has. Everyone can use a linux computer, maintenance though is always a problem. No one has succeeded at making a regular distribution that never needs command line intervention and a degree of knowhow to unbreak. (not counting Chrome OS) Maybe someday soon we'll have an immutable distribution that's truly just install and forget. (with good DE options like the new cosmic or even a carefully put together Hyprland rice)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

I'd just like to add that after using ubuntu (as a newbie), then arch for several years I recently switched to bazzite (atomic fedora with steam/gaming focus) on my daily driver.

It is SO NICE to have everything just work. And steam games that I never got working on other distros just run out of the box. Everything just works, and it doesn't feel bloated at all like ubuntu.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I use Fedora Silverblue and I love that my system is exactly the default out of the box distro, with just a couple diffs that are tracked in rom-ostree.

I've had frustrations in the past where I install packages to try something, then remove them and forever have something hanging around. Eventually one of those things inevitably breaks an upgrade or dependency resolve.

Installing apps as flatpacks is fine. I don't love the duplication of system files, but do love that the apps aren't tied to my distro version.

I also like that all updates happen silently in the background and I just reboot once a week or so. Never think about it.

I feel like the Fedora Atomic distros are great for people who mostly just want a working system and not to tinker endlessly. You can tinker, but it isn't the default and it's basically impossible to get into a bad state permanently.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

How is gaming on it,? I recently haf an issue with steam flatpak and needed to switch it for deb verion.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

I think the only thing holding me back from going for immutable Linux is desktop virtualisation. VirtualBox and VMware can't be installed on an immutable distro AFAIK, and libvirt isn't all there for Windows guests.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

My system runs an immutable/stateless Linux and I also use virtualisation.

I'm running cleanroom: https://github.com/cleanroom-team/cleanroom

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Depends on your criteria of immutable, but as far as I know you could use both on NixOS.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Hmm... I'm gonna keep tabs on that one then. Good call.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

what issues have you had with libvirt and windows? Once you get the windows drivers installed, it works pretty much the same as other solutions. only thing thats still a pain in the ass still is shared folders.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Mainly GPU acceleration without passthrough from the last time I tested (Modern Windows is slow without it and passthrough might be an issue on immutable distros), but shared folders is something I use quite a bit on VMware. I remember trying virtiofs when I used passthrough, and it was suffering.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I have been trying to understand this for a minute and I can't seem to understand why you would use it on a personal workstation.

Like it makes sense for servers, and for deploying accross multiple systems in a corporate or public setting, but beyond that it seems like it is just adding unnecessary steps if you try to use it on your personal rig.

Maybe I'll need to just give in and try it for a week to a month to see the appeal

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

With immutable distros you can try a silverblue and switch to kinoite with a reboot on an already running system and it will just work and run your flatpaks. The base image it runs does not get corrupted. You cannot make changes (easily) to the base to corrupt it. Your apps and files are just an overlay or mounts on top of the system. Your machine lights on fire, if you have a network backup, it will fire up on any hardware and be the same. It’s much cleaner and allows for easy os switching.

You could theoretically make windows work and be switchable.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Help me understand what I don't then. Why would anyone wise ever trust someone they don't know running closed source software of any kind on "their" computer?

I don't trust that asshole. I know him enough to not trust him let alone make my computer follow his directions. Why use anything but FOSS?

All down votes but no answer. Suckers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

What's closed source about an immutable distro? And who are you referring to?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Whom you talking about in terms of "don't trust someone" ? Also where is the connection between closed source and immutable distros?!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think you posted this in the wrong place

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I can't seem to understand why you would use it on a personal workstation.

Re that specifically.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Who is "he"? Who is "that asshole"?

Nobody is talking about non-FOSS software, so it's kinda weird you brought it up. In the "old man yells at clouds" way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I think I just misunderstood your post.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

honestly i feel exactly the opposite, I don’t think it’s really necessary for servers as tools like ansible are already well established in that space. Plus most servers are VMs these days which can be snapshotted easily. Also, lot of these “immutable distros” require a reboot to apply changes which is non ideal in a server, but a non issue for desktop as you can shut it down when you go to sleep.

I run fedora atomic on my desktop and laptop because i never have to worry about my system getting into a broken state, I can always roll back or even spot the problem and fix it before i reboot to apply the change. I know a lot of people say you can accomplish the same thing with btrfs snapshots, but that requires extra thought and effort on my part, where fedora atomic it happens automatically with every update.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Fascinating,

Again I haven't actually tried it. I went to install fedora kinoite(?) On an extra laptop I have to try it out but apparently the memory isn't seated correctly, so I will have to fix that real quick.

I also watched The Linux Experiment's video on it and cleared up some confusion

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's much harder to break if you're prone to tinker. And there's no configuration drift that naturally accumulates over time as you tweak a system, so it always runs like a fresh new installation.

I have learned much more on immutable OS because I'm no longer afraid to tinker around and try new things. I play in distrobox and can completely nuke the container without affecting my whole system.

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