At what point when accumulating grains of sand do they become a heap?
this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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Write hello world and immediately slap it on the resume.
all programming is abstractions of hello world change my mind
I think I am basically 95% bilingual, my native language is not English, but it was thought in school from first grade (age 5 or 6) all the way to high school (17 years old), and then in post-highschool education, I also had 2 mandatory English courses. The thing is having learned so early is I was too young to realize when I could start entertaining a conversation in English without thinking because it was almost always like that for me.
I do think though that when you can think in your 2nd language without having to mentally translate in your head to your native language is when you've reached a level of fluency that is good enough to be called bilingual. I would probably say, if you can understand jokes and plays on words in your second language, that's probably a good indicator that you are fluent
When you can speak and think in the new language without translating to your native language in your head, maybe? That can actually happen pretty fast. You don't have to become anywhere near fluent.
This is not a word that has a strict definition nor is certified by any agency or standard. As you can see by this thread, there may be a variety of personal opinions about what should count. But it’s like asking at what point in learning to ride a bike do you become a bicyclist? Is it enough to just know how to ride? It’s a semantic question, which, if you’re not familiar with that term, just means that it all depends on what you want to call something and is not a question of any objective criteria.
When you can dream in the language
In high school while studying Katakana one of the coolest things was having a dream of walking around Tokyo and reading the Katakana everywhere.
I don't think that dreams are a good threshold. Mostly based on personal anecdote - sometimes I dream with random stuff in Talian, for example, and I'm definitively not proficient in it. (Including some shitty bilingual jokes, like an angry pig surrounded by bananas praying to the sky.)
Well, then I'm nolingual, I guess.
I like to say that English is my second language. I have no first language.
One practical way to informally assess your bilingual level:
You are bilingual when you have a friend who can only speak your second language.
People with no friends confirmed as nihillingual. /s
It's complicated; different people put the cut-off point in different places. And to complicate it further language proficiency isn't just one but at least two (production vs. reception), if not four (hearing, speaking, reading, writing).
That said, in my personal and subjective view, a person is proficient enough in a language to say "I speak it" when they're able to use it for a simple conversation about a topic that they know, without too much effort or reliance on external tools.
Bilingualism is a bit overloaded nowadays, which I find kinda annoying given that word “polyglot” exists.
Anyways, if you can freely use another language in an informal exchange with a few people of different sobriety levels while failing to remember key words and recovering from that - you’re a fluent polyglot. Ability to exchange information is a key part of what language is, and that’s how you measures your proficiency.
Bilingual can also mean “natively proficient in two languages”. And if you’re older than three years old and are not native speakers of multiple languages already, the chances of you becoming one are slim.
Native proficiency is a result of a language acquisition ability that is not well understood and disappears early into child development. It results in a level of effortless mastery that seems to be impossible to achieve as an adult, i.e. a dedicated or merely attentive native speaker will be able to recognize that you are not one.
I’ve legitimately never heard polyglot used to mean “speaks two languages”, I thought it meant “speaks three or more languages.” I can understand it being useful to have a specific term for people raised with two languages from birth/very early childhood though.
[Caveat lector: I'm not from language acquisition, my main area of knowledge within Linguistics is Historical Linguistics.]
Native proficiency is a result of a language acquisition ability that is not well understood and disappears early into child development.
That's the critical period hypothesis. It's more complicated than it looks like, and academically divisive; some say that it's simply the result of people having higher exposure and incentive to learn a language before they're 12yo, while some claim that it's due to changes in cerebral structures over time.
And then there's people like Chomsky who claim that the so-called "window of opportunity" is to learn Language as a human faculty, not to learn a specific language like Mandarin, Spanish, English etc.
I felt I was bilingual when I started thinking in spanish. I'm not completely fluent but I speak well and can understand most things with context if I don't know the words.
As someone who never quite reached this level myself, I feel like it's when you start being able to think in the second language inside your head.
I only got to the point where I had flashes of this happen for specific topics that didn't translate well. For everything else I kept thinking in English, even if I then needed to convert it back mentally after.
My thoughts aren't in a language, so this always confused me as a benchmark.
Idk, I'm bilingual and I only ever think in English. It doesn't really seem to make a difference though, saying things out loud vs in my head.
I'm learning a third language now and can just barely communicate with others (worked with a taxi driver!). That said, I wouldn't consider myself truly trilingual yet. I could think in that language but it doesn't really feel like it changes anything - I still only know the same words in my head
In the same vein as your response, I’ve heard people say that they start dreaming in the other language, too, and understanding it. Being a monolinguist myself, I can’t speak with any authority, but my understanding is when you stop thinking about what you say and you’re just saying it, combined with the dreaming in it, is a good identifier.
People who say that they speak whatever random number of languages but it’s only memorized sayings…? Yeah, that’s not* the same thing, you guys.
Edit: I’m married to a Puerto Rican who works in interpretation and translation, just for my credentials here. In one of our last minor tiffs she did mention something about me not learning Spanish and how she felt some kind of way about it… but, hey. Languages are difficult, and there are plenty of relationships where a partner didn’t learn the language and it’s not a big deal. I’m busy and stressed out with work.
I’m married to a Mexican but I enjoyed learning Spanish in school (in the Midwest); later in life after moving to Los Angeles I started using Spanish quite a bit.
If I can nudge you to try learning it, you might end up enjoying it. I’m crazy busy with work too but I’ve started learning Mandarin online with a tutor and after a bit of a learning curve, it’s deeply satisfying when things start to click.
I'd say: When you can communicate with other speakers of that language. Then, since you can communicate in two languages you'd be bi-lingual.