Ok. I just read this as a way to die in an Andy Weir novel
The book also makes a pretty good case for heroin as a suicide method. I was swayed.
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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On a pet forum people regularly talk about (and suggest to others) how they euthanize their old / sick rodents at home using carbon-dioxide unlike nitrogen like this capsule uses. I looked into what's the difference and it turns out inhaling pure carbon-dioxide instantly causes panic and the sense of suffocation and it's a horrible way to die. They were even able to cause an panic attack on a person physically uncapable of experiencing fear. There are videos online about killing pigs like this and it's not a pretty sight. Suffice to say I no longer take advice from those people.
Co2 reaction is highly, highly concentration-dependent. Rodent euthanasia ideally starts around 20% which makes them cranky and sleepy, they go to sleep, then concentration is upped to around 80% and they die very quickly. Yes, they feel bad when they go to sleep, but it is a mild bad and it's all over quickly. Rodent euthanasia horror stories are about getting the concentration wrong, not the co2 itself.
Nitrogen - as long as the flow is strong enough to remove exhaled co2 - won't make anyone cranky, but it takes longer, and the longer it takes the higher the risk of something going wrong with the setup. So, tradeoffs.
There are more and more vets that are using firearms now on farms to euthanize because the drugs they use also cause panic. A 9mm round to the brain instantly incapacitates the animal, they don't even know what happens. It's the kindest way to euthanize your animals, anyone telling you the cocktail of drugs or co2 is more humane is full of shit.
Physical trauma makes sense for large animals. If you have 50 lab rats that you need to euthanize, a gassing setup can make more sense than individually whacking them.
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Yeah your drive to breathe is based on CO2 in the blood not O2 level. The higher the CO2 the more you feel the need to breathe. That's why the capsule uses nitrogen. You don't respond to the lack of O2 and can still flush the CO2 from your system.
Would I rather die breathing bottled carbon dioxide, or burn to death? Actually given what actually kills most people in fires isn't the burns but smoke inhalation maybe I'll go with the bottle of CO2. What about freezing to death? Might depend on the OAT, if it's like 30 out that would take a long time to expire, but -50?
What a grim line of thought.
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That's horrible. Why would anyone think that co2 is in any way an acceptable way of taking a life?
I guess it's slightly more efficient than just putting your pets in an airtight container. But still pretty awful.
Because it's cheap and effective. Why splurge on a bottle of compressed nitrogen or argon when all it does is forgo suffering and cost more? Think of the bottom line.
Is nitrogen even expensive to get? It's absolutely everywhere, 70% of air is nitrogen
It's not rare but it's a pain in the ass to purify and transport. Semiconductor place I used to work had a gigantic 1000 gallon tank of the stuff they had to get refilled every month. Had to have some specialty chemical tanker truck it out. Then there's problems with icing your whole setup once you actually have the stuff and try to use it. It's less of an immediate fiscal strain and more of an expensive infrastructure problem.
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Several people already got arrested, as the capsule hasnt gone through the medical/clinical testing required and because the gas used, nitrogen, isnt allowed to be used in this way medically. A few days ago a Bundesrat (member of the fedefal executive) just called it illegal. Now we will see, if the judicative branch says the same.
Imagine what could have happened given this pod's lack of approval by medical authorities. It could have gotten somebody killed!
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Are you swedish or well versed on their government? I'd like to know how it's structured if you are able to speak to it
What does being Swedish have to do with anything?
I would also like to hear the statement from the Swedish government, on this news from Switzerland.
I think this is a Sweden<->Switzerland issue.
No it's pure pebkac
Congrats. I make a mistake and you act like a complete piece of shit.
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The future is here.
Inaccurate. You can't buy anything for 25 cents.
true, it should be a subscription model. can't remember to cancel it if you're dead 😉
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They can get the cost down in they advertise to you just before you die.
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Re-brand it as a liberty booth and sell it as an improvement to the economy and less social services usage to see them pop up all over the US.
We need this in the US.
Suicide sucks, but let people make an informed decision, explain their rationale to their loved ones (if they want), and take the dignified way out. Having sat in a house, tasting the blood in the air from when my father-in-law took his life with a gun to end the pain of his cancer, I don't want anyone to have to go through that. It has been several years and our family still hasn't healed from that trauma - mostly because of the stigma, and my mother-in-law's request that we just tell everyone he died peacefully in his sleep.
I would have much rather given him a hug, shook his hand and thank him for being such a guiding presence in my life... and then know that his last moments on earth truly were peaceful, not violent and messy.
I think this is valuable work. I like that the operator can choose a setting and see nature when they go. That said, is there a reason this couldn't be a mask instead of a chamber? Seems like that sort of separation from location is undesirable, plus it would be much simpler to manufacture.
If a mask partially fails to seal the procedure would not be correct. It needs to be all nitrogen.
Sure, a proper mask fit can be achieved, but a chamber is more comfortable, AND more reliable.
A mask would still work fine with a reasonably good fit and positive pressure, it would just take more nitrogen. I think the stress of having a mask on would be a real problem for some people, no matter how effective.
I addressed that.
As background, as a firefighter I had to twice annually test the seal of my mask, and stay clean shaven.
They had a device that sensed the air moving through the mask, and a candle would be lit right near you.
A few times in my career a mask I felt was a great fit, that fully sealed, marginally failed the test, and I would be issued a new one.
Such a process (or anything similar to it) is not what you want for something as important as this. ANY leaking ambient air is a problem.
This is a different use case, and has different limitations. One of them is portability, another is fit during activity. Neither of these apply to a nitrogen mask for assisted death. In fact, you need a means of gas to escape because CO2 buildup is the cause of discomfort from suffocation, not lack of oxygen. The homebrew device is called a suicide bag and explains in detail why positive pressure, lighter gases, and an opening are preferred.
I'm aware co2 is the driver of asphyxiation and the panic response. The point is the chamber handles that without the need for any fit test or anything of that nature.
If there is a leak of ambient air into the breathing supply of air, the process is not going as expected.
A chamber straight up solves that AND increases comfortability of the subject as they don't need to wear something on their head in their last moments.
Pretty sure suicide bags don't have much in the way of fit tests, either, and I mentioned the comfort issue in my very first comment in this chain, no need to revisit it. An air leak into your nitrogen supply is always going to be a problem, possibly a bigger one in the reusable product than the one-off. It only has to work well enough one time.
I would think a chamber is easier to accommodate different body sizes and forms, thereby making fitting unnecessary. Also I would assume it is easier/ less stressful on the operator, since they just lay down instead of having something strapped to their face.
Probably comfort. There could be complication if using non-airtight mask, as this method use nitrogen and our air is like 78% nitrogen, could actually take longer for one to go, and airtight mask is uncomfortable. Also they probably don't need too many of these as demand probably won't be there anytime soon, so manufacturing isn't much of a concern.
Good point you and others make about airtightness.
For the manufacturing, I'm primarily thinking about how assisted suicide is illegal in most countries, so the ability for anyone to make it, and to make something small, may have some value versus a large, hard to transport device.
Masks have to be fitted and air tight, otherwise they just slowly asphyxiate instead of going into a peaceful slumber.