this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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On a pet forum people regularly talk about (and suggest to others) how they euthanize their old / sick rodents at home using carbon-dioxide unlike nitrogen like this capsule uses. I looked into what's the difference and it turns out inhaling pure carbon-dioxide instantly causes panic and the sense of suffocation and it's a horrible way to die. They were even able to cause an panic attack on a person physically uncapable of experiencing fear. There are videos online about killing pigs like this and it's not a pretty sight. Suffice to say I no longer take advice from those people.
The speed can significantly vary with CO2. I don't like it much myself, but due to how hemoglobin works it forces your lungs to work backwards and dump oxygen like you were in the vacuum of space. Unconsciousness is generally very rapid compared to other asphyxiants.
Ya CO2 is basically the feeling of normal suffocation. Might as well hold a plastic bag over their head.
Which isn't too bad if you can stay calm and relax tbh. Slow deep breaths let you feel like you're doing something to continue your survival without the panic of frantic breathing. Takes a bit of practice but honestly not as bad as it seems.
I'll Keri that in kind for next time.
I sincerely hope you never need to. Best of luck
Sorry, should have /s.. Was 2 min after waking up lmao
Yeah I don't think that's something anyone should spend much time practicing
Faster if it's pumped in, but yeah, still terrible.
Co2 reaction is highly, highly concentration-dependent. Rodent euthanasia ideally starts around 20% which makes them cranky and sleepy, they go to sleep, then concentration is upped to around 80% and they die very quickly. Yes, they feel bad when they go to sleep, but it is a mild bad and it's all over quickly. Rodent euthanasia horror stories are about getting the concentration wrong, not the co2 itself.
Nitrogen - as long as the flow is strong enough to remove exhaled co2 - won't make anyone cranky, but it takes longer, and the longer it takes the higher the risk of something going wrong with the setup. So, tradeoffs.
There are more and more vets that are using firearms now on farms to euthanize because the drugs they use also cause panic. A 9mm round to the brain instantly incapacitates the animal, they don't even know what happens. It's the kindest way to euthanize your animals, anyone telling you the cocktail of drugs or co2 is more humane is full of shit.
Not to mention that the drug they use, euthanyl is very bad to get into the ecosystem. If you have a pet euthanized then you can't take it home and bury it because the chemical will poison anything that happens to dig up the body and eat it.
Yup, there have been a lot of reports of vultures getting sick or dying from improperly disposed animals.
In a way I hope my dog dies of natural causes because I don't want to put him down and not get to put him in the forest of our backyard.
Cremation is bullshit, they cremate a pile of pets all at once and scoop out some for each person. You likely aren't getting your own pet back.
You say this now but man you don't want to see how sad a dog is when they are really old can hardly walk. Sit in the corner all day and just be alone. Only coming out for food/water.
I say that knowing that if it gets really bad I know how to take care of him painlessly but without euthanyl so I can bury him where he deserves to be decompose back into the universe.
So far he is 13.5 years old, blind in one eye, has had 2 tumour removed, a current tumour pressing on his brain, is on 3 different meds (4 if you include occasional CBD) he still runs and chases for kibbles and loves his humans so he's probably not ready to go yet. Maybe 6 months from now will be different but that is a 6 months from now problem.
I have a dog that is getting old, and I dread that day.
Our vet offers a choice between group or solo cremation, with the latter of course costing more.
And yeah that’s assuming they’re being honest, lol.
Physical trauma makes sense for large animals. If you have 50 lab rats that you need to euthanize, a gassing setup can make more sense than individually whacking them.
It makes sense and is more convenient, yes, but they were saying that it's more humane to do the physical instead.
If you had the time and patience to do a tiny bolt gun to the brain of all 50 rats individually it would probably be more humane. But it's inconvenient and difficult.
yeah 50 bullets would be kind of expensive. Why not just: https://youtu.be/S1rUooUhZAo?t=301
Completely agreed, but at that point, just use nitrogen, it's insane that this isn't the standard practice.
Wouldn't NO2 work too at similar cost? Or Helium?
NO works better, because it doesn't cause a feeling of asphyxiation.
helium is expensive af, so it's not an option. (it's also basically non-renewable and we're probably running out of helium in the medium-to-far future...so not a good idea)
Yeah your drive to breathe is based on CO2 in the blood not O2 level. The higher the CO2 the more you feel the need to breathe. That's why the capsule uses nitrogen. You don't respond to the lack of O2 and can still flush the CO2 from your system.
Would I rather die breathing bottled carbon dioxide, or burn to death? Actually given what actually kills most people in fires isn't the burns but smoke inhalation maybe I'll go with the bottle of CO2. What about freezing to death? Might depend on the OAT, if it's like 30 out that would take a long time to expire, but -50?
What a grim line of thought.
I believe freezing to death is considered one of the better ways to go, actually. My understanding is that hypothermia is painful to start but then you are numb and out of it as it progresses.
That's horrible. Why would anyone think that co2 is in any way an acceptable way of taking a life?
I guess it's slightly more efficient than just putting your pets in an airtight container. But still pretty awful.
Because it's cheap and effective. Why splurge on a bottle of compressed nitrogen or argon when all it does is forgo suffering and cost more? Think of the bottom line.
Panicked animals produce lactic acid which spoils the meat. Even if you don't care about their welfare killing them cruelly is a bad idea.
Sidenote: Temple Grandin, a widely recognized livestock expert, compiled her research papers in a book I flipped through. What was interesting was that only a couple had to do with what she's famous for - designing animal handling equipment. Most of them are actually about the psychology of people working in the meat industry, with one specifically saying you shouldn't hire people who will be violent with the animals.
Is nitrogen even expensive to get? It's absolutely everywhere, 70% of air is nitrogen
It's not rare but it's a pain in the ass to purify and transport. Semiconductor place I used to work had a gigantic 1000 gallon tank of the stuff they had to get refilled every month. Had to have some specialty chemical tanker truck it out. Then there's problems with icing your whole setup once you actually have the stuff and try to use it. It's less of an immediate fiscal strain and more of an expensive infrastructure problem.