Technology

Its not just AI code but AI stuff in general.

It boils down to lemmy having a disproportionate amount of leftist liberal arts college student types. Thats just the reality of this platform.

Those types tend to see AI as a threat to their creative independent business. As well as feeling slighted that their data may have been used to train a model.

Its understandable why lots of people denounce AI out of fear, spite, or ignorance. Its hard to remain fair and open to new technology when its threatening your livelihood and its early foundations may have scraped your data non-consentually for training.

So you'll see AI hate circle jerk post every couple days from angry people who want to poison models and cheer for the idea that its just trendy nonesense. Dont debate them. Dont argue. Just let them vent and move on with your day.

• issues with model training sources
• business sending their whole codebase to third party (copilot etc.) instead of local models
• time gain is not that substantial in most case, as the actual "writing code" part is not the part that takes most time, thinking and checking it is
• "chatting" in natural language to describe something that have a precise spec is less efficient than just writing code for most tasks as long as you're half-competent. We've known that since customer/developer meetings have existed.
• the dev have to actually be competent enough to review the changes/output. In a way, "peer reviewing" becomes mandatory; it's long, can be fastidious, and generated code really needs to be double checked at every corner (talking from experience here; even a generated one-liner can have issues)
• some business thinking that LLM outputs are "good enough", firing/moving away people that can actually do said review, leading to more issues down the line
• actual debugging of non-trivial problems ends up sending me in a lot of directions, getting a useful output is unreliable at best
• making new things will sometimes confuse LLM, making them a time loss at best, and producing even worst code sometimes
• using code chatbot to help with common, menial tasks is irrelevant, as these tasks have already been done and sort of "optimized out" in library and reusable code. At best you could pull some of this in your own codebase, making it worst to maintain in the long term

Those are the downside I can think of on the top of my head, for having used AI coding assistance (mostly local solutions for privacy reasons). There are upsides too:

• sometimes, it does produce useful output in which I only have to edit a few parts to make it works
• local autocomplete is sometimes almost as useful as the regular contextual autocomplete
• the chatbot turning short code into longer "natural language" explanations can sometimes act as a rubber duck in aiding for debugging

Note the "sometimes". I don't have actual numbers because tracking that would be like, hell, but the times it does something actually impressive are rare enough that I still bother my coworker with it when it happens. For most of the downside, it's not even a matter of the tool becoming better, it's the usefulness to begin with that's uncertain. It does, however, come at a large cost (money, privacy in some cases, time, and apparently ecological too) that is not at all outweighed by the rare "gains".

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ai-generated-code-outages/

When it comes to writing code, there is a huge difference between code that works and code that works *well." Lets say you're tasked with writing a function that takes an array of RGB values and converts them to grayscale. ChatGPT is probably going to give you two nested loops that iterate over the X and Y values, applying a grayscale transformation to each pixel. This will get the job done, but it's slow, inefficient, and generally not well-suited for production code. An experienced programmer is going to take into account possible edge cases (what if a color is out of the 0-255 bounds), apply SIMD functions and parallel algorithms, factor in memory management (do we need a new array or can we write back to the input array), etc.

ChatGPT is great for experienced programmers to get new ideas; I use it as a modern version of "rubber ducky" debugging. The problem is that corporations think that LLMs can replace experienced programmers, and that's just not true. Sure, ChatGPT can produce code that "works," but it will fail at edge cases and will generally be inefficient and slow.

The other day we were going over some SQL query with a younger colleague and I went “wait, what was the function for the length of a string in SQL Server?”, so he typed the whole question into chatgpt, which replied (extremely slowly) with some unrelated garbage.

I asked him to let me take the keyboard, typed “sql server string length” into google, saw LEN in the except from the first result, and went on to do what I'd wanted to do, while in another tab chatgpt was still spewing nonsense.

LLMs are slower, several orders of magnitude less accurate, and harder to use than existing alternatives, but they're extremely good at convincing their users that they know what they're doing and what they're talking about.

That causes the people using them to blindly copy their useless buggy code (that even if it worked and wasn't incomplete and full of bugs would be intended to solve a completely different problem, since users are incapable of properly asking what they want and LLMs would produce the wrong code most of the time even if asked properly), wasting everyone's time and learning nothing.

Not that blindly copying from stack overflow is any better, of course, but stack overflow or reddit answers come with comments and alternative answers that if you read them will go a long way to telling you whether the code you're copying will work for your particular situation or not.

LLMs give you none of that context, and are fundamentally incapable of doing the reasoning (and learning) that you'd do given different commented answers.

They'll just very convincingly tell you that their code is right, correct, and adequate to your requirements, and leave it to you (or whoever has to deal with your pull requests) to find out without any hints why it's not.

People who use LLMs to write code (incorrectly) perceived their code to be more secure than code written by expert humans.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.03622

• AI Code suggestions will guide you to making less secure code, not to mention often being lower quality in other ways.
• AI code is designed to look like it fits, not be correct. Sometimes it is correct. Sometimes it’s close but has small errors. Sometimes it looks right but is significantly wrong. Personally I’ve never gotten ChatGPT to write code without significant errors for more than trivially small test cases.
• You aren’t learning as much when you have ChatGPT do it for you, and what you do learn is “this is what chat gpt did and it worked last time” and not “this is what the problem is and last time this is the solution I came up with and this is why that worked”. In the second case you are far better equipped to tackle future problems, which won’t be exactly the same.

All that being said, I do think there is a place for chat GPT in simple queries like asking about syntax for a language you don’t know. But take every answer it gives you with a grain of salt. And if you can find documentation I’d trust that a lot more.

For me it's because if the AI does all the work the person "coding" won't learn anything. Thus when a problem does arise (i.e. the AI not being able to fix a simple mistake it made) no one involved has the means of fixing it.

Because most people on Lemmy have never actually had to write code professionally.

If the AI was trained on code that people permitted it to be freely shared then go ahead. Taking code and ignoring the software license is largely considered a dick-move, even by people who use AI.

Some people choose a copyleft software license to ensure users have software freedom, and this AI (a math process) circumvents that. [A copyleft license makes it so that you can use the code if you agree to use the same license for the rest of the program - therefore users get the same rights you did]

One point that stands out to me is that when you ask it for code it will give you an isolated block of code to do what you want.

In most real world use cases though you are plugging code into larger code bases with design patterns and paradigms throughout that need to be followed.

An experienced dev can take an isolated code block that does X and refactor it into something that fits in with the current code base etc, we already do this daily with Stackoverflow.

An inexperienced dev will just take the code block and try to ram it into the existing code in the easiest way possible without thinking about if the code could use existing dependencies, if its testable etc.

So anyway I don't see a problem with the tool, it's just like using Stackoverflow, but as we have seen businesses and inexperienced devs seem to think it's more than this and can do their job for them.

Now, I obviously didnt tell it to write the entire code by itself. [...]

I am fairly competent in writing programs.

Go ahead using it. You are safe.

Basically this: Flying Too High: AI and Air France Flight 447

Description

Panic has erupted in the cockpit of Air France Flight 447. The pilots are convinced they’ve lost control of the plane. It’s lurching violently. Then, it begins plummeting from the sky at breakneck speed, careening towards catastrophe. The pilots are sure they’re done-for.

Only, they haven’t lost control of the aircraft at all: one simple manoeuvre could avoid disaster…

In the age of artificial intelligence, we often compare humans and computers, asking ourselves which is “better”. But is this even the right question? The case of Air France Flight 447 suggests it isn't - and that the consequences of asking the wrong question are disastrous.