this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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Russia will make changes to its doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons in response to what it regards as Western escalation in the war in Ukraine, state media quoted Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying on Sunday.

The existing nuclear doctrine, set out in a decree by President Vladimir Putin in 2020, says Russia may use nuclear weapons in the event of a nuclear attack by an enemy or a conventional attack that threatens the existence of the state.

Some hawks among Russia's military analysts have urged Putin to lower the threshold for nuclear use in order to "sober up" Russia's enemies in the West.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 2 months ago (7 children)

No they won't. If Putin isn't a complete idiot, he knows that using nukes will be the end of Russia.

https://youtu.be/v4mZPc_kkys

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 months ago

Bark bark bark

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

If their nuclear bombers went airborne the second Ukraine troops crossed their borders people would've taken them seriously. It would've shown how serious they were. But here we are, weeks after the invasion onto Russian soil, and their strong man argument is changing a few words on paper. It's not very impressive or convincing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

Russia will make changes to its doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons in response to what it regards as Western escalation in the war in Ukraine, state media quoted Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying on Sunday.

Oooh.... Someone's realized that a substantially smaller country with Jewish Nazis in the government is way more competent when it comes to specialized military operations?

This is more a sign of desperation than a sign of either strategic military confidence or a booming economy.

Moscow accuses the West of using Ukraine as a proxy to wage war against it, with the aim of inflicting a "strategic defeat" on Russia and breaking it apart.

Dude, you're making yourself more important than you actually are. No one cares about you.

Edit: if you're quoting something, it's kind of expected that you copy the correct quite... duh...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Dude, you're making yourself more important than you actually are. No one cares about you.

Seriously. The West keeps legit forgetting the whole thing is even going on, and then waking up and sending $50 billion and then getting distracted again.

The bravery of the Ukrainians and the 20:1 outmatchedness of the Russians in total industrial/technological capacity are responsible for the failure of the invasion. Not any kind of urgent priority or strong level of care on the Western side in any location west of Poland.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Fuck it, if that's how we go that's how we go.

I think there are enough people with more brains than putler over there.

I hope this does scare his Chinese and dkpr allies a bit though.

This one barking Russian bitch is the reason so many flowers are growing?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Fuck it, if that's how we go that's how we go.

Be faster than climate change.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

Bark bark bark

[–] [email protected] 116 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago

Hey look, it's the Russian State media. I love this picture

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

And we can assume that these nukes, unlike the conventional armory, have been maintained since the Cold War and not sold off to private interests?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I seem to recall a big kerfuffle around a decade and a half back about Russia not actually knowing what became of a whole bunch of nuclear weapons in the aftermath of the USSR collapsing. There were also rumors of Soviet nukes being sold off to various unsavory groups. It really wouldn't surprise me to find out there was some truth to that.

I have also heard that ICBMs and the like require regular expensive and specialized maintenance in order to remain functional. Knowing what we now know about Russia what do you figure the odds are that some general or other decided those maintenance funds would be better used to line their pockets since the odds of actually using those nukes were so low?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Almost all nuclear weapons require quite a bit of expertise to maintain over time. If they got sold off 30 years ago, chances are 99% that they’re mostly good for lighting off as a dirty bomb and not much else at this point.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Putin, you can't invade another country killing thousands of their civilians and then get upset when that country comes into yours and starts taking your territory. Using a nuke here doesn't make you look strong, it makes you look extremely weak.

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 2 months ago (7 children)

The SECOND Russia uses nukes, it's OVER. Russia's entire existence ceases to exist, as EVERY country will nuke Russia. It won't be WWIII.

WWIII would imply two set of countries of roughly equal might, and each side has several countries fighting together.

This would be more like EVERYBODY vs Russia. And they wouldn't last more than a few days.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Nato will write a sternly worded letter. Biden will SLAM putin for it. The EU will try to pass chat control.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

I don't think that everyone is ready to cry right after reading this comment. Pls delete

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (4 children)

it would be over for everyone

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

This would be more like EVERYBODY vs Russia.

I do not share your confidence about that.

Countries with nuclear weapons include China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, and possibly Iran. And while I don't think any of them want a nuclear war, if a nuclear war breaks out, I can imagine three or four of them siding with Russia.

China might side with Russia simply because they're sick of the US trying to hem them in militarily through the "island chain" strategy. The US has the entire coast of China surrounded by military bases, which could be used to cut off China's trade routes, which is an existential threat to China because their economy is so dependent on exports.

North Korea has a historical beef with the US, and Russia helped North Korea survive through a period when the US tried to starve them.

India and Pakistan have a long-running dispute over Kashmir, and if India backs the US, it's possibly Pakistan will back Russia just to oppose India.

And Russia and Iran have been solid military and economic allies for a while now, working together in recent conflicts in Syria and Iraq.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

If their intelligence agencies are worth anything, they would understand that any action unless directly against Russia would be suicide not only for them but also us. Nukes are a losing strategy no matter what.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Nuclear politics trump geopolitics.

https://youtu.be/v4mZPc_kkys

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

We don’t need to nuke them even, we can just use conventional munitions to fuck up every military installation they have to rubble.

And chuck a few Tomahawks at Kremlin to be sure

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Unless the nuclear fallout is proven to effect a NATO ally and trigger Article 5, no one would give a shit if Russia nuked itself on its own territory. And no one other than the US can afford to unleash all of their their nuclear arsenal, costing billions of dollars and their only defense deterrence, in one go to light the powder keg and be left without nukes to defend themselves.

However, you are correct, Russia would cease to exist if they retaliated disproportionately and a single molecule of NATO territory was effected as a result.

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 2 months ago (7 children)

The problem is Russia has the very real capability of really screwing up a good chunk of the world before they get wiped off the map. It's kind of scary if im being honest.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Uhh, maybe 2 decades ago, they sold all those weapons on Wish.com, where do you think all those super-yachts came from?

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Do they really?

They made a lot of claims about their military capabilities. However their war with Ukraine has shown those to largely be lies propped up to hide that their oligarchs have emezzled the money.

I'm starting to wonder how nuclear capable they actually are these days.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I would have believed you a few years ago.

At this point I think Putin has to have serious doubts that he could use a nuke and have it actually work. He's up against both western tech and his own corruption.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think even China and India would sever any remaining ties to russia if russia uses a nuke.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago

If Russia uses their nukes, about 30 minuites later there won't be a Russia left to sever ties with.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They would, as Russia is only a useful idiot and a link to natural resources for both of those countries.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (4 children)

China would just wait until it's over and then pick through the remains of Russia. Probably try to claim a big chunk of southern Russia using some excuse or another.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 months ago (2 children)

In Putin's eyes:

Putin = Russia.

So, "threatens the existence of the state" means "I might personally lose power over this".

It wasn't that long ago troops marched towards Putin, and while he meant to teach the lesson "go against me and die" what he really taught everyone was "next time don't negotiate and don't believe anything I say".

All it takes is letting some fall guy with a personal grudge against Putin get close to him with a gun.

Everyone gets to pretend that they didn't want him dead, and the fall guy gets killed immediately after but got to settle his score first.

Without Putin the focus goes back on making money, and Russia stops invading people and threatening nuclear Armageddon.

The people around him are definitely considering if he's worth more as a myth than a man at this point.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Putin has no endgame.

There is no timeline where he can step down and live peacefully.

His one in a million is to conquer enough of Ukraine and somehow be allowed to keep it - but that’s not happening unless Donald wins the election.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

True. Dictators like Putin don't usually retire, alive at least and the end is not usually pretty, so he hangs on, and on.

[–] [email protected] 80 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The sound of rusty sabres being rattled.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You mean the Russian foreign minister?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Oh right, I see now I got whooshed.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Sergei isn't one of mine; he is a Chihuahua, and, may the Master and the Holy Bone forgive me for saying the word, probably part P*meranian too.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

Oh come on Putin, no one is gonna use nukes… don’t be a bitch.

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