this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2024
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Like for many other people, Valve single player experiences were one of my favorite of all time growing up. I considered both Half-Life and Portal to be masterpieces. It's true they've always been distracted with multiplayer games as well, things like Counter-Strike or Team Fortress and I did play them for sure, because I was a kid and I had all the time in the world.

These days I'm not a kid anymore and so when I game I tend to look more for memorable experiences instead of mindless grinding. Obviously I remember Valve as the experts in creating memorable experiences and I would like them to keep fully exploring those talents. They don't have that many employees, but they do have all the money in the world, no external pressure, no publisher to shit on them, it's just their developers and artists and a vision. But then they use all that and create this. An Overwatch looking moba shooter, really? I'm sure people will like and play it, but is this the results of the vision and ambition of a company like Valve?

It doesn't have to be Half-Life. I remember them saying that they dont want to do another one in the series because they are looking to innovate and make something truly original. My body is ready, give me anything. I can't imagine a moba shooter really fits with this description. I'm wondering how such a low hanging concept even becomes a real product at a company as ambitious as Valve.

I hear people are having fun with the new game and I'm happy for them. I am no longer the target audience and I wish them good luck with it. In the mean time let me hear your thoughts on it. Would you like to see another single player experience from Valve?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Got access to it a few days ago. I played it for a few hours. Here's my take:

It's just a tps dota

Now, I don't mind that too much. My problem is with the plethora of issues combat has

  1. Despite there being damage falloff, you are directly decentivised from fighting in close range. This is because you both have little minions on both sides that attack the enemy and heal you. Why would you jump into that? Why would you give up your source of healing?

  2. It's way too easy to retreat. So you just poked and prodded the enemy for 3-4 minutes, finally got into a favourable position, pushed in, and they're already on the zipline out of there. Sure, this is good for you, you can attack their sentinel. But attacking their sentinel isn't fun. It just stands there and attacks your minions. You're punished too much for dying, why would you risk it?

  3. The stun abilities are atrocious. Picture this: you and an enemy found each other without support. You're deep in a close range firefight, having fun for once in the game. Then this rando pokes their head around a corner, stuns you, and you're dead before the stun ends. Why is this in any game?

  4. Most hero weapons feel like you're shooting wet paper towels. The majority of them are fast-shooting, but not in a good CS way. More like "I sincerely hope this is changed and these are just placeholders" way. The few that actually feel good to play (such as the girl with the green arm or the greaser dude) either lack damage in general or damage in mid-long range fights, the majority of the game

The most fun I had in this game had nothing to do with objectives or lanes or teamwork. It was when I was going between lanes and found an enemy doing the same, causing a close ranged battle. Makes me wish they just made this as another TF2

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

Valve doesn't want to make a buy to play game unless it's something that pushes the medium forward somehow, which is the only reason Alyx was made. A PvP moba can be a source of continued revenue like all the other games they still support (and one they don't).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Weren't there just credible leaks on a sequel to Half Life Alyx that may or may not be Half Life 3.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

There was a write up from one of the writers who worked on the series.

This was written after he and most of the team left Valve.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Anyone have an invite for Deadlock?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I’m stoked about Deadlock. I used to play Super Monday Night Combat constantly, until it shut down.

I’ve been waiting like 10 years to get a decent game that fills that void, and Deadlock seems to finally be it! I personally couldn’t be happier with their choice hah.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of that game when I heard of deadlock

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Dude, where have you been? Look how little good single player games rockstar is putting out.

It’s just harder and less profitable.

I rather have one great red dead 2 than 5 forgettable ones; looking at your assassins creed, used to be one of my favourites and I haven’t played anything after black flag.

If I ever get VR stuff, I would want to play Alyx but if they had 5 okayish games instead, it would be a nope from me.

I still haven’t even played black mesa even though i bought it, I like fewer but better choices especially since I’m more busy in this stage of life.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Doesn't Alyx have a fan-made non VR version as well?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Is it really or are we assuming it is because publishers do this?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I would argue it’s more like multiplayer games are just much more profitable instead of not being able to turn a profit as well on single player games. And it is very easy to prove that some multiplayer games are cash cows.

That’s the thing about capitalism though, it’s not about choosing something profitable, it’s choosing the max profit option.

Thankfully there are enough passionate people and good companies that a savvy gamer can find ways plenty of single player games.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ok, I'm a bit out of the loop but is Deadlock actually any good? Like, most of what I've heard is that it just isn't very fun. Even though they kinda fell apart the auto battler and the card game from Valve were generally fairly well received from what I remember. But everything I've heard about Deadlock is that it's not fun, and is bringing the worst elements of DOTA with it.

Maybe since it's barely even a thing yet, it might wildly change since that's part of the Valve MO.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

The thing is I don't think it has anything to offer to bring in people from outside the genre. Some people really enjoy it but you kinda have to already be into that kind of thing (DOTA).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

It's big and complicated and smooth but ultimately nothing special

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'd much rather have a game like deadlock developed out of love and passion than some suits dictating to the devs to make games they don't want to. That's how we get Avengers, Redfall, Gotham Knights, etc...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Especially considering a lot of the creative talent behind Valve's acclaimed single player catalog are no longer at the company. Valve is a different company now and so their games will be different too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

On the flip side, they still have that Valve spice. Alyx was worthy of the Half Life badge, something I was skeptical was still possible after all that time.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

+100, my feelings exactly.

I am now 45. I tried Deadlock, was overwhelmed, some other player told me to "fuck off" through the vocal chat because I was in the wrong lane, I uninstalled.

Generally, I don't have time anymore to play online games that are about grind and skill. I don't want to play only one sort of game. I want a game with an end so that I can move to another one.

MOBAs were cool at the time of warcraft 3. Let's move on.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Valve’s last two releases were Half Life Alyx and Aperture Desk Job. Both are single player games.

Aperture Desk Job even runs on Linux and Steam Deck.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Let's move on.

I enjoy MOBAs a lot, but their communities tend to be so toxic... I'm playing other multiplayer games because I am tired of the toxicity (among other things).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

All online games will have a certain amount of toxic players there. No exceptions.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

MOBAs were cool at the time of warcraft 3. Let's move on.

What kind of statement is this? MOBAs are still insanely popular. And "move on"? as if there's no reason to iterate or improve on a genre?

I don't even play MOBAs but I've heard this same sentiment on arena shooters and it makes as much sense there as it does here.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah you're right. This statement was intended for me.

Everyone can of course play what they want.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

If youre looking for a game with an end then you might wanna stick to single player. Online multiplayer is designed to keep players coming back for more

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I miss Super Monday Night Combat. (This is utterly unrelated to the post other than being a shooter/moba.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I honestly can't understand how that game still feels like it was so much better than all the clones that came for years after it!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

For me it was the themeing. Games like League of Legends try to come up with weird reasons why the games work the way they do and it feels silly. SMNC leaned into the goofiness. Instead of killing a dragon for gold you'd have to catch the Mascot. I wanna say you'd get stuff from brands to help you out but I can't remember.

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