this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2025
633 points (98.9% liked)

Technology

71949 readers
8808 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago

It took me a few days to get the time to read the actual court ruling but here's the basics of what it ruled (and what it didn't rule on):

  • It's legal to scan physical books you already own and keep a digital library of those scanned books, even if the copyright holder didn't give permission. And even if you bought the books used, for very cheap, in bulk.
  • It's legal to keep all the book data in an internal database for use within the company, as a central library of works accessible only within the company.
  • It's legal to prepare those digital copies for potential use as training material for LLMs, including recognizing the text, performing cleanup on scanning/recognition errors, categorizing and cataloguing them to make editorial decisions on which works to include in which training sets, tokenizing them for the actual LLM technology, etc. This remains legal even for the copies that are excluded from training for whatever reason, as the entire bulk process may involve text that ends up not being used, but the process itself is fair use.
  • It's legal to use that book text to create large language models that power services that are commercially sold to the public, as long as there are safeguards that prevent the LLMs from publishing large portions of a single copyrighted work without the copyright holder's permission.
  • It's illegal to download unauthorized copies of copyrighted books from the internet, without the copyright holder's permission.

Here's what it didn't rule on:

  • Is it legal to distribute large chunks of copyrighted text through one of these LLMs, such as when a user asks a chatbot to recite an entire copyrighted work that is in its training set? (The opinion suggests that it probably isn't legal, and relies heavily on the dividing line of how Google Books does it, by scanning and analyzing an entire copyrighted work but blocking users from retrieving more than a few snippets from those works).
  • Is it legal to give anyone outside the company access to the digitized central library assembled by the company from printed copies?
  • Is it legal to crawl publicly available digital data to build a library from text already digitized by someone else? (The answer may matter depending on whether there is an authorized method for obtaining that data, or whether the copyright holder refuses to license that copying).

So it's a pretty important ruling, in my opinion. It's a clear green light to the idea of digitizing and archiving copyrighted works without the copyright holder's permission, as long as you first own a legal copy in the first place. And it's a green light to using copyrighted works for training AI models, as long as you compiled that database of copyrighted works in a legal way.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago

Judge,I'm pirating them to train ai not to consume for my own personal use.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Good luck breaking down people's doors for scanning their own physical books for their personal use when analog media has no DRM and can't phone home, and paper books are an analog medium.

That would be like kicking down people's doors for needle-dropping their LPs to FLAC for their own use and to preserve the physical records as vinyl wears down every time it's played back.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It sounds like transferring an owned print book to digital and using it to train AI was deemed permissable. But downloading a book from the Internet and using it was training data is not allowed, even if you later purchase the pirated book. So, no one will be knocking down your door for scanning your books.

This does raise an interesting case where libraries could end up training and distributing public domain AI models.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I would actually be okay with libraries having those AI services. Even if they were available only for a fee it would be absurdly low and still waived for people with low or no income.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The ruling explicitly says that scanning books and keeping/using those digital copies is legal.

The piracy found to be illegal was downloading unauthorized copies of books from the internet for free.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I wonder if the archive.org cases had any bearing on the decision.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Archive.org was distributing the books themselves to users. Anthropic argued (and the authors suing them weren't able to show otherwise) that their software prevents users from actually retrieving books out of the LLM, and that it only will produce snippets of text from copyrighted works. And producing snippets in the context of something else is fair use, like commentary or criticism.

load more comments
view more: next ›