his argument is never very good.. viruses are incomplete beings in every sense we care about.. the human being shares almost nothing in common with them conceptually.. we cooperate and care about each other in ways that are obviously not virus-like.. even when we fight, it's much more interesting than virus combat..
this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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Again with this defeatist attitude huh.
He said that, and then went on to replicate himself out of control; just like a virus.
We're worth it.
The universe is a dazzling beautiful place and we exist to observe it. We should definitely focus on living in a more compatible manner but even in our current shitty state we're a net positive.
I agree that existence is truly a wonder.
Yet I don't see how everything else being great around us means we're so great for just seeing it all.. I'd ask, a net positive to what group? Our own, of course, because we procreate. But.. at what cost? Does the cow share your zeal for humanity, you know
Is the point of existence merely for wonders to be observed?
I think that's precisely it. The universe is beautiful and we're the portion of the universe that exists to appreciate that beauty.
It's a very humanocentric view (or sentient-centric more accurate) but I think it's fair and accurate. We definitely need to get our shit together though.
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Looking at global statistics the world is getting better. Not in global warming. But violence, freedom, wars, health. It's hard to see because nobody talks about it. It's easy to get stuck doom scrolling. But it's not the whole picture. We as a global society agree slavery is bad. That is a pretty new concept in the history of our species. We went from the first powered flight to space in 50 years. That is insanity. Yes, there are lots of fucked up things we caused, but ultimately I believe in our ability to figure it out eventually. Everything we do and have done, is natural. We are a product of evolution just like every other living thing on this planet.
I think our world is amazing, and that includes humanity.
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Smith's argument conflates humanity and society as being the same thing, because as a machine he has no concept of individuality - to him, humans as a single unit blighted the planet, and therefore are a plague, because he can't conceive of the idea of free will.
Things can be fucked up on a macro level, with war and selfishness and greed and destruction, while still being comprised on a micro level of essentially good, unique, interesting people who care for each other. Smith doesn't see this, because in his eyes humans are all the same - just like him. He is arguing against his own existence
This perspective is really interesting to me
I have admit,I tend to agree. I make comments like "individual people are smart, but people at large.. they're idiots" it's the way I can rationalize how we're facing a rematch of Biden v Trump in the US the year.. And other things that defy reason
But in weighing the positives and the negatives of the totality of our impact - how many good small acts does it take to overcome a Khmer Rouge? What about when those loving families are torn apart by religion, patriotism, morality etc and the angels fight? Conflict, like death and taxes, seems undeniable - maturity, much less so
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Do you think it's inherently human nature to be this way or do you think there are other ways for humans to be? Maybe you're conflating human nature with something else, like capitalism.
I don't know what human nature truly is, or if there can be a singular definition.
However, judging by the historical record, we seem to be quite good at exploiting things and beings for our own benefit at their expense, which doesn't really make a compelling case for worthiness
Worthiness begs the question of a judge of worthiness. The Agents may not have liked us as part of a balanced ecology, but they found us worthy batteries, for example. But they're made up, as I'd argue most other external judges or values are. Even if a human is making that judgement, worthy of what and why? More worth than X? To who? Why is their judgement worthy?
It's a big can of worms and the deeper you go, the less clear it's going to be. Maybe focus on a smaller bite for now.
Whom created capitalism, or any economic strategy?
Who. For nominative case, it's who.
I'm not sure what your point is, though. Are you suggesting that humans are destined to capitalism, in which case there is no choice and you can't really put a moral judgement on it anymore than you can salt crystallizing. Or do you mean humans end up choosing capitalism, in which case can't they choose something else and it's not human nature after all?
How does this Wikipedia argument address whether or not we're a blight, or if we should be?
It raises the question on whether we're a net positive (or, well, argues that we are). Humans do a lot of shitty things but on the whole it's worth it.
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