this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

I hope like hell the sets of questions were randomized, because if they weren't, they were tweaked by the surveyors beforehand to try and force a particular result.

Like the AI question was paired with some incredibly crappy options like "A browser that runs 2x slower than your current browser". Obviously they want you to click that option as least wanted and leave the AI development alone (if that wasn't a randomized grouping).

Similarly, it looked like they were trying to decide which feature to sacrifice in support of AI dev in later questions, because all 3 would be things I enjoy much more than AI, but I have to rate one as least wanted.

EDIT: OK, thanks for all the responses everyone! Looks like my pairing of AI and 2x slower was just a bad random selection inducing extreme paranoia on my part. Very happy to hear that.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (13 children)

Bring back PWA!!

Sadly, they're probably thinking mobile.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 3 months ago (2 children)

i don’t like how they used "want least", it means three very different things:

  • i want this but it’s not the thing i want the most
  • i don’t care for this
  • oh god fuck no
[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

The survey design accounts for this. See https://lemm.ee/comment/13835466.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's why they did it in sets of three. They could just give every user a blank text box for every option, but doing it this way makes it far easier to analyze the data in bulk.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

yea, but that gives you less info

this way, you can’t really differentiate from a feature that people want, but not as a priority, VS a feature that people don’t want ever

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

And there's no way to relate preference between features, at least in my case. I had one question that I entered "2x faster performance" as most want, and the next question was "2x slower performance," but there was another crappy option in the same list that I also don't want, so if I don't pick "2x slower performance" as least want, what signal does that send?

I hope it all comes out in the wash, but honestly, I would've preferred a big list of all of the features with 4 options:

  • really want
  • want
  • meh
  • don't want

I think I would've entered about even numbers of things for each category. They could even limit "really want" to top three or something.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Do they publish any of the data from these surveys or use it as an excuse to remove more useful features?

"We listen to our community, so now we're removing about: config access from stable desktop builds to match the mobile version to provide uniform builds, making problems easier to replicate and also provide better security for all. Please use beta or nightly builds for tinkering."

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Product managers know what KPI's they want to improve, and its almost never survey sentiment results. The survey will be used to justify projects that improve the KPIs they already have. Best case scenario it helps them choose what to work on first, worst case (and most likely) it doesn't matter what the survey says - it's engineered to justify a pet project.

i.e. Straight out of "how to lie with statistics" - Would you rather drink bleach or add in browser advertisements based on privacy respecting AI categorization of you browsing behavior? ..... The people have spoken and they OVERWHELMINGLY want more monetization in their browser.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Duh. I'd rather drink bleach.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

All those features, and the only one I want is customizable hotkeys. Although I guess I'd also take "browser is twice as fast."

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Which do you prefer:

( ) browser twice as fast

( ) women find you irresistible

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago

( x) browser twice as fast

( ) women find you irresistible

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[–] [email protected] 108 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

How much AI do you want in your browser:

( ) None

( ) Zero

( ) I want my browser to automatically close any page that mentions AI

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

hi we're the marketing team and we already decided what we want to do, and we can make up whatever data you want to see for us to justify it!

[–] [email protected] 51 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Which of these options do you prefer:

( ) having an AI assistant integrated into the browser

( ) getting kicked in the balls by elon musk

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Well, getting kicked in the balls is a one-time affair, and I'm done having kids anyway, so I'd go with that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

i guess daddy musk is coming to make my dreams come true

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Which of the following attributes would you most want your new browser to have, and which would you want least?

Twice as slow as your current browser

Is that a joke?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

For me that was together with

A privacy-respecting AI assistant that makes your browser smarter by learning how you use it

So I don't really care how slow the browser is, as long as it doesn't have an AI "assistant" that is monitoring my browser usage

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Yup, I stuck that as "least want." I already marked "2x faster performance" as "most want" on another question, so hopefully it all shakes out in the end.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (5 children)

I wouldn't mind an AI assistant, as long as it's fully local.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

It's an Inferred importance method, as other users have commented it is likely that there are some calibration metrics in there. MaxDiff is the name of the approach if you want to check out more.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Wait, I swear mine said twice as fast. Well I guess I got filtered then. Lol

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago

There were both

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago

I had both.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Control question probably, to check if you actually read the questions.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I forgot those exist and interpreted it as "Would you sacrifice performance for one of these features?"

Am I stupid?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I also thought it was a feature vs performance question. How can it be used as a control question?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

lol, yeah. 👍

I was doing a political poll just the other day and the third or fourth question was a color question like: “Which of the following is associated most with a ripe banana?”

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Makes sense. What about those who click that option as a joke? Maybe discount all other replies from that person because of that too?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

I mean, fair?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

@neme loaded questions are loaded.

The "Want most" to "Want least" scale is loaded AF.

Where is the option for "I don't want any of these things"?

Edit: Yeah, fuck that. That survey is bullshit. I stopped bothering to give answers due to the multi-choice questions seeming like a way for Mozilla to have a wank about itself.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

I don't know if the survey questions are loaded, but it feels like they could easily be misinterpreted.

For example, somebody might rank the "organize toolbar buttons and AI chatbots" even if they hate AI's snake oil, and now Mozilla has a data point where they can say "Some of our respondents said they want AI as much as side tabs!"

This seems especially sketchy when the side tab idea came directly from a vocal portion of Mozilla users, while the decision to follow the AI chatbot trend was decided by the same management that overpays their CEO every year.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (11 children)

This is fairly standard survey design, I believe. They're not looking to know which features are wanted in general; they want to know their relative popularity. The sets you're presented are randomised (i.e. we don't all get to see the same sets), which allows them to get a ranked list of lots of potential features, while only having to run ten survey questions per participant.

If you get a set with three features that everyone likes or dislikes at about the same level, then it doesn't really matter want you answer: they'll all end up at the top or bottom of the list, respectively. Because each of those options also get presented as part of different sets to different users, where different answers can win out.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

You're bang on. It's called MaxDiff. I use it frequently in my line of work to prioritise product or service messaging with panel data. It's better in some cases to use Inferred preference rather than stated, but generally good to keep the options comparable in "size" of offer.

I would never interpret a MaxDiff model low end result as "wow, 5% of people want slower browsers." Instead I'm focusing on the top cluster. As with any model, they're only ever so accurate. Don't read into the questions too much.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The problem with this design is, if people do not care, then they will give random answers, if they don't have the option to not care. Also this would be important information for Mozilla too, if many people do not care about a specific question. So I feel like they should have done that. But, who am I...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Presumably if people don't care, they don't fill in the survey. But as an extra failsafe, they've also included the feature "twice as slow as your current browser". If you rank that high, then your result can probably be discarded.

But yeah, this design has worked well for many other surveys, so presumably it'll work well for this one. They're the experts :)

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Any uncertainty would be filtered out by the scale of people answering

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

@Vincent couldn't finish the survey purely because of the questions suggesting that I should "want" something.

Perhaps if they asked the question differently, they'd have gotten a completed survey from me.

I can't answer loaded questions.

The samples they get are meaningless if only people who complete the survey are counted.

The fact that I couldn't select none of them and move forward, meant something: Jerk Mozilla off, or don't.

I chose not to, and I am a Mozilla user!

#librewolf

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