this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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I'm a little bit underwhelmed, I thought that based off the fact so many people seem to make using this distro their personality I expected... well, more I guess?

Once the basic stuff is set-up, like wifi, a few basic packages, a desktop environment/window manager, and a bit of desktop environment and terminal customisation, then that's it. Nothing special, just a Linux distribution with less default programs and occasionally having to look up how to install a hardware driver or something if you need to use bluetooth for the first time or something like that.

Am I missing something? How can I make using Arch Linux my personality when once it's set up it's just like any other computer?

What exactly is it that people obsess over? The desktop environment and terminal customisation? Setting up NetworkManager with nmcli? Using Vim to edit a .conf file?

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 months ago

Come for the memes, stay for the wiki and AUR.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (3 children)

This is probably true of most distros.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (3 children)

You're forgetting the finest feature - you have to tell everyone in the real world and online that you use arch btw.

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[–] [email protected] 202 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Welcome to realizing the Memes are all bullshit and its just a solid distro that's worth using for the simpleness. Just go use your computer like the average user is and roll with it

[–] [email protected] 66 points 5 months ago (7 children)

Yep, all this «how do I learn linux» stuff is weird. You don't learn your OS, you use it. Did you need to «learn» Windows? You just launch it and click your browser / file manager / media player and browse, manage files and watch or listen to your media files.

You can just use your PC as you would regularly use your PC and find solutions once you face some issues. Yes, Linux issues are different from Windows issues.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

No longer using Arch, but I can tell you what I liked about it:

  • it basically only does what you explicitly tell it to, making the setup very flexible. There's no stuff the OS hides behind its own tools really (resulting in little to none "DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE" situations).
  • It is very up to date and the rolling release generally works well, there's no pain with changing releases or anything.
  • The package manager, including creating your own packages, is dead easy and fast. Caveat is that once you look deeper into it, it gets more complex as you need to keep a container for clean building around. Still, with the right tooling, it's very manageable.
  • As already mentioned, the documentation is very good.
  • Packages are very close to upstream, in most cases just being something like "./configure; make; make install".
  • Generally very unopinionated.
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

What do you mean by people being obsessed over Arch?

Archlinux is Linux, it's just a minimal distro that allows you to only use whatever you want to use. I have no idea what's with being obsessed over it other than «use arch btw» which became a local meme recently.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Fresh packages all the time without any hassle or snaps/flatpak/appimages, and theoretically never needs to be reinstalled. What's not to love.

OP was pretty fucking snarky though, ngl. Some of us enjoy using arch based distros without being walking memes, and far more people complain about people talking about arch than actually talk about arch these days.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

Let me ask you... Why would you do something like that? I mean, Arch is just a piece of software, why would you wanna be obsessed with or turn it your personality?

Don't you have anything more meaninful to worry about?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Arch is perfect, it's like THE Linux. It's not really opinionated about anything, it just helps you do it. Hell you can "pacman -S apt" and slowly become a debian

That's the magic of it: latest software, rolling release, edit some config files, do anything you want, spend half your time tweakin'

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's like owning a screw driver, a really nice professional grade, well forged screw driver, with a molded grip handle.

Does it do anything that the $1 cheap knock off screw drivers can do? No, its just a screw driver.

If you use it every day, you may grow to like all the tiny features and comforts and customizations, or maybe not.

ArchLinux is a tool just like embedded linux systems, does basically the same thing as every other OS, its not life changing, but if you may grow to like its little details just like a custom screwdriver.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Does it do anything that the $1 cheap knock off screw drivers can do? No, its just a screw driver.

I got a chuckle out of that

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

afiak the prase "i use arch btw" is mostly sarcasm,
instead of genuine appreciation.

its mocking the stereotype of arch users that constantly bring it up to sound smart or feel supperior.

think of arch like "vintage car culture" with a touch of minimalism.
its restricting and breaks all the time,
but thats kinda the point because fixing it becomes a part of your lifestyle.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I use it precisely because it doesn't break all the time and is less restricting... Don't know where you got the idea it is not.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

I also feel like it "breaking all the time" was part of the stereotype itself. I stopped using Arch because it was stable for almost 3 years and part of the point of using it in the first place was learning Linux by fixing stuff that broke - except that stuff never broke so I grew bored of it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I also felt a little underwhelmed, I thought the installation would be more difficult.

If you are not in it for the memeing I find it to be a great distro.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I think any person with ability to read and follow instruction can install arch in 15 minutes (excluding waiting for things to download), there is nothing special about it.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago

Yes, and that's the point of Archlinux. It's nothing special, at least in the way it is configured. You make it special. You build your distribution more or less. You are the opinionated one, not the distribution. I think what people are "obsessed with Arch" is, that you have to manage it yourself and you build it yourself. It is the philosophy that is appealing I guess. In example not much is automated. Stuff is described in the wiki and community and it is expected that you learn the stuff and understand and then do it yourself, instead relying on automated and preconfigured stuff from a regular distro.

On my main system I use EndeavourOS, which is basically Arch, but with some pre-configs and opinions, and comes with some automation tools.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Ha ha, you fool, you fell for the classic blunder!

It’s just a meme, dude.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago

Not the only meme I fell for... Anyone know the best way to unload 5 thinkpads that originally shipped with Windows 7??

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Everybody gangsta, until someone says I use Arch, BTW.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Nobody's raving about the install, that's just useful for people who don't know what makes a Linux distro.

It becomes your personality after a few years because every update might break anything, and you need to regularly maintain random shit. Also if you forget to update regularly, the chance of everything crapping out rises exponentially.

I hope you're using something like btrfs, because rollbacks are a must.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sorry you've had such a rough go, just remember your experience isn't everyone's experience.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Did you use arch-install or manual classic install

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Both :) Manual classic install doesn't strike me as particularly complicated.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Isn't the archinstall command just one word?

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[–] [email protected] 122 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Didn't bother going through the hoops and installed EndeavourOS which is arch-based with some additional default applications.

For me, the best thing of Arch isn't the distribution but the Arch wiki. An impressive piece of documentation.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

The Arch build system is just as impressive IMO. I've written Debian and redhat packages for at least two decades and Arch packaging is just so much easier to handle. The associated tooling for creating and managing build chroots is excellent as well.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 months ago (1 children)

And the Arch User Repository is really handy when you need some more users.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's not a typo but a jest to the security implications, isn't it?

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Arch wiki is superb, couldn't have installed or configured Arch without it.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Most of the time it is achieved with the phrase: "I use Arch, btw". 😉

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Don't forget shitting on Arch-derived distros.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

We save that for Manjaro, endeavor and the others are pretty cool

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 5 months ago

In a way this post is just long-form "I use Arch, btw" 🤯

[–] [email protected] 51 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Also wearing unix socks might help

EDIT: A more complete guide.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago

Also, Blåhajar for better pics

[–] [email protected] 54 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

Now actually use it for a couple of years. Then you'll see whats special about it.

For me personally, Ubuntu was breaking on every dist upgrade, the software was always out of date or not available in the repos. Been running arch for 5 years, same install, even transplanted it over to newer computers without issues. When some package is missing, I can throw together a PKGBUILD with chatgpt and put it on the AUR for others to use. It fucking rocks and is extremely sturdy while allowing me to do with it whatever I want.

But yeah, besides that, it's just a linux. The individual things it does well are not even exclusive to arch. Ideally, you should not think about your OS at all and it should be out of your way, while you do something on it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Makes sense. Do you find that by having the same install for so long (including transplanting it) that you have accumulated a lot of bloat? One of the things I really enjoyed about a fresh install was that I knew there wasn't a build-up of digital junk files, but with Arch fresh installing every once in a while just seems impractical.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I've been using Arch for about 15 years or so, and yes, I build up cruft... in my home directory ;-). The system itself is remarkably good at keeping tidy. The one spot to keep an eye on is /var/cache/pacman, as that's where it stores every package you download before installation and it won't delete it without you asking it to.

Any new config file will be saved with a .pacsave extension, so you'll want to keep an eye out for those, but that's basically it

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Not in any bothersome way. But if you really want to reinstall often that is valid as well. You can very easily script the arch install process to get you back to the same state far easier than other distros as well. Or you can just mass install everything except base and some core packages and reinstall the things you care about again which almost gives you a fresh install minus any unmanaged files (which are mostly in home and likely want to keep anyway).

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[–] [email protected] -3 points 5 months ago

Been running arch for 5 years, same install, even transplanted it over to newer computers without issues.

To be fair, I pretty much do that with Windows 10...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

Any major Linux distribution has a system for building packages, it's not something special to Arch. In fact, Arch's great advantage of the aur repository actually becomes a disadvantage by introducing instability and insecurity into your system when you add programs from that repository. It's amazing that people criticize Windows security with .exe's and then install packages from external repositories with the security of "trust in the repository". How can you trust code with root access to the system just because it's in the aur repository? That's the main question I would ask Arch users.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

It's amazing that people criticize Windows security with .exe's and then install packages from external repositories with the security of "trust in the repository".

As with almost every case of these sorts of comparisons, these are likely separate groups of people holding separate groups of opinions.

I don't use Arch anymore, but when I did I found that the AUR was really useful to quickly install niche applications that would take ages to be approved on to an official repository. Often those would be made by the application developers themselves or members of the community. I would personally vet the packaging script myself, but I'm sure many wouldn't - and that's fine. As with most software, there's some trust involved and often you assume that if you're installing from a reputable repository it's going to be fine. If people aren't vetting the installation scripts and are installing from random repositories, that's really their problem. I'm glad the possibility existed and it's the one thing I've missed in distros I've used since then.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Any major Linux distribution has a system for building packages

I have built packages for all the major ones. Non arch packages are a pain to build and I never want to do it again. In contrast arch PKGBUILDs are quite simple and straight forward.

How can you trust code with root access to the system just because it’s in the aur repository?

Because you can view the source that builds the packages before building them. A quick check to not see any weird commands in the builds script and that it is going to an upstream repo is normally good enough. Though I bet most people work on the if others trust it then so do I mentality. Overall due to its relative popularity it is not a big target for threats when compared to things like NPM - which loads of people trust blindly as well and typically on vastly more important machines and servers.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's a choice. We know that it's riskier to use stuff from AUR. Which is why it's highly recommended to read the PKGBUILD before installing the package. The basic Arch install doesn't even include an AUR helper. That said, AUR is typically very reliable for packages with a decent userbase. It's mostly due to the community aspect. Bad actors are caught relatively easily as the PKGBUILD is available to look at.

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