this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2024
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What do you think?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

No, at least not most animals. There was a study a while back that showed that animals think by reducing the world to a series of binary choice that they react to in the moment. I imagine it's a lot like when you're playing a sport or video game and things get very intense and fast paced; your inner monologue isn't telling you what your next move will be every second, you're just reacting on instinct. That's probably how animals see the world all the time.

That being said, "animals," is a broad category, and some of them may be capable of creating an abstract narrative for themselves. It was recently discovered that whale songs have a phonetic alphabet, which means their language may be as complex as ours. If that's the case, they may be capable of using that language to build an internal monologue.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

I'm not sure about all animals, but I'm pretty sure my sphinx cat does. I have to give her medicine every day and not only does she knows when it's time to get it, but there are times where she will hide under the bed. Just laying down and looking at her and asking her to come out is enough to get her to wander over slowly and get it. It's funny, you can almost see the thoughts going through her head as she realizes she has to just give in and go get her pill.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

I'm sure it depends on the animal. In fact humans think in at least two inner voices.

The ear consciousness is receptive, and the speech consciousness is active.

What I mean by this is a dog or another animal that spends a lot of time with people likely has a passive inner voice of their owner. A dog might hear an owner yell no when they go to do something the owner doesn't like, even if their owner isn't around.

Animals that are capable of speech such as a parrot, will likely have an active speech consciousness. Which is more somatic in tone.

For example, when I am in active speech consciousness I can feel my jaw and tongue muscles move. When in passive listening consciousness, my ears might move or strain to try to hear the inner speech.

With practice these somatic sensations can be decoupled from their internal sense consciousnesses. Which tends to help them quiet down and deepen meditation.

This is one of my favorite practices that's accessible for people who don't really meditate. The guided meditation is the first fifteen minutes of the video, so you don't have to listen for the whole hour to get an inkling of what I'm pointing at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OW9LNSVjPo

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Based on watching my Borzoi decide whether or not to sneak into the kitchen, I'd say yes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I think they do

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

So many people making stuff up they have no way of actually knowing in this comment section. No wonder religion is so widespread!

The true answer, unsatisfying as it may be, is that we have no way of knowing the subjective internal experience (often referred to as 'consciousness') of other humans, let alone other animals. For all we can know, a rock could have thoughts. We really, for now at least, can't know. Unfortunately.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 3 months ago (6 children)

Not even all humans have that little voice.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

In a way that scares me, but it would explain how we have so many different ways of looking at life.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I'm one of the people who doesn't have a little voice. It weirds me out that other people do.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

I think so. I have parrots who are at a 4 year old human's intelligence level. They do things they know they shouldn't and wait for me to turn my back, it's like they know they shouldn't but have an intrusive thought and act on it. Of course, once I say "excuse me..." With the dad tone, they fly to their cages and pretend they did nothing. To me that takes thought and reasoning, desire, planning, action, etc. On their part.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (6 children)

No, but that is because they don't have language.

That said, plenty of humans do not have a voiced internal experience. The lack of language does not imply a lack of cognition. I would expect that the brain of a closely related organism, say a chimp, would have many similar experiences generated by the same stimuli. Would they experience green like I experience green? I can't even say that about a person sitting next to me, but they probably have an equivalent experience.

That said, if we had a way of communicating could we reach agreed terms? I can do that with my cat, so I would think he has an understanding of me and my behaviours along with what tends to happen when I do certain things like clap then shake my hands at the end of a treat session. He knows there are no more treats, he associates that with my hands clapping and shaking, so we communicate. Does he have a voice in his head describing it? Probably not. Does he have Meows? Again, probably not, but he would have a sense and memories of previous times.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Some animals do have language and animals that are around people a lot likely have an inner voice that is their owner's voice.

They likely don't plan using this voice, the way people do. But it certainly influences their behavior.

A dog that's been yelled at for getting in the garbage might hear a no in their head even if their owners at work.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Does he have Meows?

That’s such a cute and funny thing to imagine lol. An inner meowologue

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

This is something I've always been highly skeptical of. As a somewhat experienced meditator, I'm hyper-aware of the constant flood of self-talk happening in my head, but I don't remember paying particular attention to it before I started practicing. It has always been there, but until then, I hadn't paid any special attention to it. Whenever this subject comes up with people who don't meditate, they often seem to live under the illusion that, except for intentional thoughts, their mind is more or less silent the rest of the time. I'd argue that 99.9% of people couldn't sit for 20 seconds without letting their mind wander, even if their life depended on it. Even I couldn't, despite my experience in meditation.

That's why I think that when people are asked whether they have this inner voice or not, some say no because they're not aware of it. Not having it would effectively be synonymous with being enlightened.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Also an experienced meditator.

Not everyone thinks in words. Some people think in pictures. Or in other sense consciousnesses. As an experienced cook, I can think in taste and smell without any auditory component of 'what should I put in this dish'. For example.

As for word thinking, passive thoughts are more auditory and active thoughts more somatic (throat and jaw muscles will move). These can be decoupled from the sense of I making, especially passive thoughts.

At which point you get thoughts think themselves, to quote Jack Kornfield. A sort of bubbling up of passive thoughts in voices that aren't mine.

It's likely animals that live close to people experience this. The owners voice yelling no when they do something the owner wouldn't like, even if the owner isn't around.

Anyway, trying to not think can be like holding your breath. I can do that for awhile. But it's not right effort. Letting thoughts settle, like sand in a glass of water. And letting go of the sense of I making. The mind will rest quite naturally. That's calm abiding.

In other words, it's attachment to the inner voice that's making it difficult for you to imagine that a lot of people think in pictures or other ways. And noticing this sense of attachment in your practice with the intention of letting it go, might deepen your insight into yourself and what others may or may not experience.

Edit: this listening meditation is helpful for me in letting go of attachment to the inner voice. As is annapanasati, especially the third tetrad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OW9LNSVjPo

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

True though that may be, there's no benefit to mentioning that in this situation.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

they

... So what sort of non-human are you? 🧐

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

He's a cat.

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago

No, they operate on instinct. Our thoughts are in our own language, their only language is instinct and body language (barks included).

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago

Yes. They think less but they vibe more. We overthink and undervibe.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

They are like people who never learn language. This sometimes happens to deaf people who are not taught to use sign language. Any inference about such a person’s intellect and capacities should be abstracted towards mammals at least.

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