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This is Left Praxis, LIBERALS would never understand the 4d chess involved in how Trump winning helps Palestine and American minorities.
Wait a fucking minute! Is the guy who posted this a Democratic socialist or a social democrat? I need to know before I react!
I am a leftist by nature, but I can’t get involved in all their madness. The pettiness and bickering is absolutely ridiculous. Quit smelling your own farts and actually fucking organize.
More DemSoc more than SocDem since the Trump years. But in general, most interested in preventing fucking fascism.
I call it the leftist uncanny valley.
The good old circular firing squad.
Why is this meme literally left-leaning
Oh, fuck off with this bullshit. Anyone politically conscious enough to call themselves a leftist is overwhelmingly more likely to cast a Biden vote than pretty much any other group you could carve out.
The left tells centrist morons how to appeal to average Americans. Centrist morons ignore the left. Average Americans stay home on election day. Centrist morons assume it's because they're leftists since the leftists warned them .
It's bad enough the left has to keep voting for establishment goons. It's intolerable that we are the first place they look for a scapegoat when they fall on their fat asses. Hillary lost because of Hillary, and that's on the Democratic establishment and primary voters who nominated an arrogant hag.
My 2c as a non American: The politically active "far-left" will likely hold their noses & vote for Biden as "damage reduction".
The non-voters will be the disenfranchised, suppressed and the "non-political".
Then whatever happens, democrats will blame the "far-left" and talk about how they could have done better if only they'd appealed to some imaginary conservative swing voter who doesn't exist.
I'll end up voting for Biden. Not psyched about it, but pragmatically the alternative is so much worse. Might get shit from the ultratankies and hexbros, but I'd rather do damage control than whine about Biden and do nothing while an actual fascist snakes his way back in.
It doesn't feel good. And it isn't good. But this is the reality we live in at the moment.
Thank you, comrade. I mean it. 2000 wasn't like this. 2004 wasn't like this. 2008 and 2012 weren't like this. The opposition was cretinous and eager to violate what rights they could, our failure to defeat them in 2000 and 2004 caused hundreds of thousands of deaths, minimum, and is a stain on our soul, but they weren't a direct threat to democracy itself. More than happy to cheat if they could, but not trying to fundamentally dismantle the system. This? Trump? I don't know that we would survive a second term - large amounts of 'us' and the republic itself.
The vote for the Dem candidate (one hopes not Biden) is essential against fascism.
2000 was like this, the Supreme Court literally passed a law to get Bush to win the presidency.
George W. Bush and Al Gore. On December 8, the Florida Supreme Court had ordered a statewide recount of all undervotes, over 61,000 ballots that the vote tabulation machines had missed. The Bush campaign immediately asked the U.S. Supreme Court to stay the decision and halt the recount. Justice Antonin Scalia, convinced that all the manual recounts being performed in Florida's counties were illegitimate, urged his colleagues to grant the stay immediately.[1] On December 9, the five conservative justices on the Court granted the stay, with Scalia citing "irreparable harm" that could befall Bush, as the recounts would cast "a needless and unjustified cloud" over Bush's legitimacy. In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that "counting every legally cast vote cannot constitute irreparable harm."[1]
Why do you feel the need to lie about this?
2000 was like this, the Supreme Court literally passed a law to get Bush to win the presidency.
Did you miss the part about being more than happy to cheat, or did you ignore it?
Why do you feel the need to lie about this?
Oh, sorry, you're correct, we haven't had real elections since 2000.
You don't think cheating in an election, discounting votes, counts as being a threat to democracy? Using the Supreme Court to make a ruling for the sole purpose of making Bush president? That's more than a threat, that's a headshot.
If you think that we haven't had real elections since 2000, why do you say things are different now? This has been ongoing. I don't see why you feel the need to make a narrative that this is all new.
I think dismantling the ability of the opposition to acquire office or remove the ruling party from office is a existential threat to democracy.
Playing legal games to go against the popular vote and stall a region's vote is a violation of democracy. Not an existential threat to it.
So unless you'd like to tell me how we haven't had elections since, I stick by what I said.
There is now legal precedent to do that at any given moment. I'm literally so confused about why you are trying to die on this hill? Republicans have been eating away at voting rights for a long time. If only some people have their votes counted, that's not a democracy.
Edit: not to mention the persistence of the electoral college, which has already fundamentally destroyed the idea of democracy.
There is now legal precedent to do that at any given moment.
Funny enough, one of the most outrageous parts of that case was that it explicitly did not establish legal precedent for it.
If only some people have their votes counted, that’s not a democracy.
So have we ever been a democracy, in your eyes?
It's real funny that you're trying to normalize Trump's behavior by casting it as just another Republican administration.
Not ha-ha funny.
If it happened before, what is stopping it from happening again? Why can't the Supreme Court do it again and also say "yeah but it's not a precedent"?
Why do you feel the need to pretend the US is suddenly becoming undemocratic? And why have you ignored that question? I am actually curious here?
If it happened before, what is stopping it from happening again?
The same thing that would have stopped it in 2000 - an undeniable vote margin advantage in the contested state.
Why do you feel the need to pretend the US is suddenly becoming undemocratic?
Why do you feel the need to downplay and normalize the threat to democracy currently occurring?
And here you are kind of defending the Republicans? Like, oh the vote margin was small so it was kind of okay? Wtf? lol
Why wouldn't there be narrow vote margins again? It's not implausible.
And here you are kind of defending the Republicans? Like, oh the vote margin was small so it was kind of okay? Wtf? lol
You asked me what would stop it, not what was okay. Or have you forgotten?
So ... it could happen again? I just don't see what you're trying to do here by saying this. It could definitely happen again.
Are you just being deliberately obtuse?
So yes, it could happen again. With a small enough margin. Which, is not out of the question.
Republicans have been like this for a long time, why are you denying it? It was bad in the 80s too. Did you forget Reagan? And his genocide against gay people during the AIDs crisis? Saying the Republicans have always been bad doesn't make Trump any less bad.
https://prospect.org/politics/2024-07-10-project-2025-republican-presidencies-tradition/
Then as now, the Heritage Foundation gave a Republican president a blueprint to do it. Indeed, Project 2025’s Mandate for Leadership shares the same name, and same format, with the volume Heritage published in 1981.
If anything, acknowledging this history strengthens your case against Trump, because we can look at the impacts of Republican policies and nominations.
Saying the Republicans have always been bad doesn’t make Trump any less bad.
Republicans have always been bad, I'm pretty sure I was clear about that. But a presidential election of a Republican has not, previously, been a threat to the basic functioning of democracy. Now if you're done playing apologist for the first attempted autocouper in US history...
Someone would have to be out of their mind to interpret anything I have said as being a Trump apologist. Weren't you just complaining about "purging" over disagreements? You seem perfectly happy to call me a "Trump apologist" for pointing out history. Recognizing that Trump is part of a broader pattern of conservative policies can only help.
And Trump was not the only coup in the US https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_massacre
But there are plenty of ways Republicans are currently awful, and have been awful. Are you saying that January 6th was worse than the genocidal handling of the AIDS crisis, worse than successful US-backed coups in South America? Worse than the GOPs ongoing history of voter suppression? It's all bad.
edit: v cute how quickly you downvoted me 🥺
And Trump was not the only coup in the US https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_massacre
And here I thought it was apparent that I was talking about the national government when discussing the fucking USA. And that's not a fucking autocoup in any case, which is what I said.
Someone would have to be out of their mind to interpret anything I have said as being a Trump apologist.
But there are plenty of ways Republicans are currently awful, and have been awful. Are you saying that January 6th was worse than the AIDS crisis, worse than successful US-backed coups in South America? Worse than the GOPs ongoing history of voter suppression? It’s all bad.
Uh huh. Sure. Making equivalences of the first attempted autocoup with prior Republican policy doesn't sound like Trump apologia at all.
Do you really not see the parallels of a white supremacist coup? Even if it is state, and not federal?
So ... you do think January 6th is worse than all that? You just want to ignore history? Why? Republicans have been bad? Can you please explain why you want to deny that Republicans have always had awful, anti-democratic strategies that rely on disenfranchisement? Trump is part of a larger pattern, there is a reason he was able to rise to power. It's not like Hitler was the first person to think up anti-semetism.
It’s not like Hitler was the first person to think up anti-semetism.
And if you tried to play apologist for Hitler by trying to make an equivalence between him and all prior antisemites, it would sound about the same as this does.
Have you never heard of antisemitic pogroms?Hitler had technological advances for his genocide, but he was far from the first.
You really just flit from idea to idea, don't you?
I am responding to your exact message. You said
And if you tried to play apologist for Hitler by trying to make an equivalence between him and all prior antisemites, it would sound about the same as this does.
And I said:
Have you never heard of antisemitic pogroms?Hitler had technological advances for his genocide, but he was far from the first.
If you think that's a non-sequitor, that explains a lot of your attempts at discussion.
As an American, let me assure you, there are plenty of swing voters. Altogether too many, honestly. People who are deeply political often spend their time around others who are deeply political, which colors their views significantly.
The Dem tendency to chase the swing voter is real, and counterproductive, but it's not for an imaginary voter. The issue is that the swing voter they're trying to appeal to isn't voting on policy. They're voting on feelings. So when the Dems move their policy right, they piss off and demoralize large amounts of left-leaning voters, but do only a little to sway swing voters.
All we have is public perception and the outward message leftists want to put off is biden is worse than donald. Sure, when you corner them they may feign some semblance of reason about the ballot box but all I've seen is calls for third party and treating joe like he is sending the orders himself.
The key is, we can be upset, and we can fight for change but right now our efforts must be against trump. I pledge my own to comeback hard on biden if he somehow eeks out the win, but I doubt I'll see any of you there. Just like 2020.
All we have is public perception and the outward message leftists want to put off is biden is worse than donald.
My personal favorite has been "If Trump was president at least Democrats would oppose these bad things out of contrarianism!", completely ignoring that the stark and unconditional opposition to the party across the aisle is a Republican tenet.
But here you are ... mocking people for criticizing Democrats.
But here you are … mocking people for criticizing Democrats.
... reread the comment.
Anyone politically conscious enough to call themselves a leftist is overwhelmingly more likely to cast a Biden vote than pretty much any other group you could carve out.
Jesus, do you know how many people on here regularly swear against voting for Biden?
The left tells centrist morons how to appeal to average Americans.
Sweet Jesus, have you ever talked to an average American?
I support carving out more left positions, but if there is an electoral advantage, it would be in motivating left-leaning voters who are not deeply involved in the political process, not in swaying the 'average American' positively.
Like, man, I would love it if most people were left-leaning, but hearing this line time and time again, at this point it rings as hollow to me as the semiannual "I, a City Liberal, had waffles with these Common Folk and they're Not That Bad" articles that come out from liberal publications before every fucking election.
Living here, it's a different story.
And you think that is evidence of something? The exit polling was crystal clear. Bernie supporters overwhelmingly voted for Hillary in 2016 and for Biden in 2020. Who the fuck cares what online trolls say?
In the case where leftists might say they won't vote for Biden, odds are that they are venting or pushing for a better candidate. When it's Trump or Biden, most will come around unless some idiot causes them to harden their position. That's pretty much the standard human reaction to this kind of post.
If you are really concerned that the left won't show for Biden, there are ways of approaching the topic that aren't designed to alienate. You are far more likely to push people away than convince them to vote for Biden with your tone-deaf chastisements.
You might have fooled yourself that this is about helping Biden win, but that's bullshit. You are scratching an itch to declare your moral and intellectual superiority to the Internet. You don't give a flying fuck about the election, you just want to be smug. If you really cared about the election then you would find a better approach.
Who the fuck cares what online trolls say?
Me. Obviously. Since I'm bitching about it.
After 2016, I'm very wary of ignoring the influence of trolls on discourse.
In the case where leftists might say they won’t vote for Biden, odds are that they are venting or pushing for a better candidate.
It's funny, then, that it always seems to come along with lots of voter suppression. Spreading right-wing talking points, saying both sides are the same, playing up the idea of a 'protest vote' to anyone who will listen...
If you are really concerned that the left won’t show for Biden, there are ways of approaching the topic that aren’t designed to alienate. You are far more likely to push people away than convince them to vote for Biden with your tone-deaf chastisements.
I'm not trying to convince the self-proclaimed leftists. The self-proclaimed leftists who engage in this bullshit are not people who are working on values that are compatible with a vote for anything except fascism.
Propaganda, if unchallenged or tolerated, changes communities. I've seen it happen with various forums - and now I feel a little old. Man, I'm not deluded enough to think that memes on here are going to create a surge of suddenly-shamed pseudoleftists to cast their votes for Biden. I just don't want their talking points justifying fascism and genocide to be welcomed, or propagate in the same way that gossip does, or be normalized in this community.
At best, sustained effort might choke out a vector of a vector of misinformation which may have swayed a voter. As intended, it's not even about that much. There's other work than posting memes to be done for actually getting out the vote and generating enthusiasm. This? This is a step above posting ordinary memes, but only a step. Insofar as it has a purpose, the purpose is recreational (to maintain standards in a community I enjoy and vent), not civic. It's not some great effort that will sway the election - but it can be enough to see useful idiots and fascists frequent decent communities less often.