this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
92 points (89.0% liked)

Asklemmy

43776 readers
1440 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Let's imagine, a world where 10 month a year, men and women don't care about each other. However, twice a year, during 2-3 weeks, non pregnant women produce pheromone that men can't resist and start calling every boy around to breed with them.

How would this impact the civilisation ?

I know about David Brin's *glory season * but not sure whether any other writer explored that idea.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is actually a HUGE factor in human sexual selection. Other primates have visible Estrous cycles. I.e. what people commonly call going into heat.

This has a big impact on reproductive dynamics. Who mates, when they mate, etc.

Humans, for whatever reason, do not have a visible indicator of fertility, which provides females more sexual selection options. Because it's not obvious when they're in heat, they can choose who they mate with at the right time. They can also socially mate all the time, which can increase human bonding.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not only that. Menstruation started as a way to decrease the chance of non viable pregnancies (because we are susceptible to genetic mutations which we needed to in order to adapt). Because it reduced fertility, people had to fuck more often. Not only that, men were selected on certain traits that resulted in paternal care evolving. Because well... if the mom dies, then at least the dad makes sure they both succesfully reproduced. Male chimps are more likely to eat orphans than take care of em. After all, they can always force a another one.

Menstruation became so good at reducing fertility, that we developed monogamous behaviour. Men developed the ability to bond at all. By becomming more sensitive to oxytocin despite producing less of the stuff compared to women. Men also express prolactin in the brain after their baby is born, which is hard to find in other primates. It's amazing that men don't kill infants whereas male apes and monkeys do... just to get the female in estrus faster again.

I mean just look at the other primates. The males really don't care about anything except their position, and control over females. Whereas men can love interacting with dogs. Ever seen a cat dad? That's true care and love right there. It sounds like a "duh." But there is so much more behind the behaviour.

Humans are dope.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Other primates usually only kill infants when they're not the progenitor. They don't kill them randomly

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

But it's often 1 male that mates. So you have a lot more males that try to kill, rather than not. And if that 1 male wasn't at the top, he'd be doing the same.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Sure. But the point isn't murder it's reproductive success.

The males are not interested in killing their own children. If they were, evolution would quickly remove them from the gene pool.

It's difficult to apply modern western morals to other cultures much less other species.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

I am aware of the reason behind the behaviour. I even mentioned that killing an infant gets the female in estrus sooner. I was merely pointing out that men aren't like male monkeys. That men are able to find the idea of infanticide unacceptable, wereas male monkeys couldn't care less.

I am not applying "modern western morals" on them. Strange way to phrase it too. Why not call it human morals? Why modern western?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago

From what I have heard/been told the "ignoring partner and sex 1-2 times a year" is a lot of marriages, so maybe your scenario wouldn't change much

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It would be like the purge, but stickier.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

We sort of do

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Reminds me of how the Vulkans have it in Star Trek. I'm no expert but there was an episode where Spock went into his horny craze :)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

This had been a theme through multiple Trek series. They call it Pon farr.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Yes, it's the Pon Farr, that makes Vulkans have blood fever. The episode you are talking about is Amok Time

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

first two things come to mind:

water-cooler conversations at work would be different. telecommuting may be an important option during the season.

My shiny seashell collection may be in jeopardy. the ladies love seashells 🐚.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It would be a very large undertaking to describe the changes since hidden breeding cycles are one of the things that separates humans from other apes.

Human women being able to choose when and with whom to mate, secretly, is one of the most significant aspects of what it means to be human.

Humanity is one of the few species whose evolution is primarily driven by sexual selection and not just the “I survived long enough to find a female so I reproduced” strategy we know of as natural selection.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's like when someone says something like "Oh if men could get pregnant there'd be an abortion clinic on every corner". Not getting pregnant is the core attribute that makes "men" a concept.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

We’re like humanity’s spartans. I literally feel less fear than is rational for my own survival, because it’s optimal for the group that I should be ready to be overwhelmed by rage or whatever and attack the lion and get killed so others can survive.

I spoke with a female marine once — someone who could kill me no problem — and she told me the fear she felt before training was still there. Conversely despite knowing from experience that I am useless in a fight, I feel cocky and self assured. Or, if I stay on top of the cockiness, I simply don’t feel afraid.

I don’t mean it’s not there. I’ve been terrified. But I’ve got a confidence that just slowly steadily increases in the absence of recent evidence, that somehow I’m invincible.

Anyway, I say it’s like spartans because this reminds me of some kind of drug cocktail you could inject into a solider to just make them not give a fuck.

I’m not complaining mind you. I’ve got no problem with having less fear. But mostly because I live in a super safe environment, so it doesn’t hurt me to have less fear.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah. Note a very fun answer, but I'd go so far as to say this was critical enough in hominem development that there wouldn't be human society if humans had a mating season. So many of critical points in human development seem to hinge on very social developments, and this may have played a large role in that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Boink once a year, get no fire or wheel.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago

Username checks out,

But nice answer

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago

I imagine it would look a lot like how Zoidberg’s home world is depicted on Futurama

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

Post nut clarity for most of the year sounds peaceful, but I'm guessing people in heat would think with their genitals and wouldn't care about STDs or pregnancy.

Everyone wound have some STD and birth control would be a side note. Human reproduction would work like clockwork and without neutering world would have exploded long time ago.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)

We sortof do, there's a huge cluster of birthdays roughly july to september

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Or just winter, I think. Lots of people indoors with nothing better to do.

Edit: actually, I'm curious how this chart looks for just the southern hemisphere.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

here's a chart!

what's fascinating to me about this is how people are clearly using medical science to avoid giving birth on certain holidays.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Fascinating stuff but is this a global chart or is it limited to a single country? Or hemisphere?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

judging from the weird void on july 4th, i am guessing it is based on data from the US. probably based on census records.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Doctors also influence the avoidance of holidays there

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

that's a good point! nobody wants to do labor of either kind on xmas.

[–] [email protected] 65 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I had the discussion the other day of how civilization would be different if humans followed the 'have loads of babies at once and see which ones survive' style of reproduction.

"Oh hi Sarah! How're the kids?"

"Oh, little Jeremy wasn't eating as much as the others so I threw him outside onto the road."

[–] [email protected] 44 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We probably wouldn’t name them until they had reached a certain age

[–] [email protected] 42 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"Number 5 and Number 7 ate Number 3 last night."

[–] [email protected] 50 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Missed opportunity there mate:

7 8 9

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago

6 now lives in fear of his younger sibling.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Does it happen en masse or does each woman have their own heat season? Say, does everyone go crazy during the same 2-3 weeks or does it vary per person like it happens with periods?

In the masse heat I think there would be some obvious differences in stuff like festivities and each culture would adapt to these seasons. There would be a need to gather and store resources before the rut, and also to be prepared for the inevitable birthing en masse to come. We would probably have public holidays for the mating seasons and festivities for birthing season. In contemporary times, hospitals would need to do some heavy work planning and preparing maternity ward space to accommodate the seasonal influx. That's just what pops to mind.

Not too sure about the differences in the second case though. One option is, women would be allowed to retreat from society and become hermits during heat if they want to avoid pregnancy and this would be totally normal. Or, some cultures would lock them to prevent them getting pregnant. Coming to think of it, I think having women randomly in some kind of irresistible heat like this would be very disruptive and impossible to prepare for so I don't see much happening in the way of gender equality and women's rights sadly. I'm inclined to think the re would be a lot of gender based extreme segregation.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Option #2 is basically werewolves.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 months ago

I'll point out that many creatures that have seasonal mating still mate for life.

load more comments
view more: next ›