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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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For those veteran linux people, what was it like back in 90s? I did see and hear of Unix systems being available for use but I did not see much apart from old versions of Debian in use.

Were they prominent in education like universities? Was it mainly a hobbyist thing at the time compared to the business needs of 98, 95 and classic mac?

I ask this because I found out that some PC games I owned were apparently also on Linux even in CD format from a firm named Loki.

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[–] Shimitar@feddit.it 19 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Ah, Linux from scratch...

Also, hardware was... Harder back then, on Linux (mostly modems).

Beside that, software wise there was less stuff on Linux than today, so you had to check carefully you had what you needed.

But I was already a Linux user, and a linux-only user at that.

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

I got a copy of Turbolinux 6 (released in 2000) from somebody at a Hamfest, but couldn't get it to install and run.

Two years later, I was successful in running Debian and Gentoo.

[–] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 7 points 8 months ago

Well, if this is now, this was back then.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 37 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ah, yes, Linux around the turn of the century. Let's see...

GPU acceleration? In your dreams. Only some cards had drivers, and there were more than 2 GPU manufacturers back then, too... We had ATi, nVidia, 3dfx, Cirrus, Matrox, Via, Intel... and almost everyone held their driver source cards close to their chest.

Modems? Not if they were "winmodems", which had no hardware controller, the CPU and the Windows driver (which was always super proprietary) did all the hard work.

Sound? AC'97 software audio was out of the question. See above. You had to find a sound blaster card if you wanted to get audio to work right.

So, you know how modern linux has software packages? Well, back then, we had Slackware, and it compiled everything gentoo style back then. In addition, everyone had a hardon for " compiling from source is better"... so your single core Pentium II had to take its time compiling on a UDMA66-connected hard drive, constrained with 32 or 64 MB RAM. Updating was an overnight procedure.

RedHat and Debian were godsends for people who didn't want to waste their time compiling.... which unfortinately was more common even so, because a lot of software was source only.

Oh, and then MP3 support was ripped out of RedHat in Version 9 iirc, the last version before they split it into RHEL and Fedora. RIP music.

As for Linux on a Mac, there was Yellowdog, which supported the PPC iMacs and such. It was decently good, but I had to write my own x11 monitor settings file (which I still have on a server somewhere, shockingly, I should throw it on github or somewhere) to get the screen to line up and work right.

Basically, be glad Linux has gone from the "spend a considerable amount of time and have programming / underhood linux knowledge to get it working" to "insert stick, install os, start using it" we have now.

[–] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In addition, everyone had a hardon for " compiling from source is better"

I mean, optimization had more of an impact on the weak CPU's back then, no?

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

That only matters if there's anything to optimize by source compilation. If the program doesn't have optimization features in the source, it's wated time and energy.

[–] limelight79@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago

I started playing with Linux in the late 90s while I was in grad school. Slackware 3.x. I think I might have tried one or two others, but since I was somewhat familiar with Unix, Slackware was the easiest for me to learn.

I got them via CD ROMs; I'm pretty sure they came with a book on Linux (I think it included several distributions on CDs). I don't think I have that book any more; I likely got rid of it long ago as it was badly out of date. But my memory is that it was published by Que, a publisher that I had good experience with on other topics. (dBase III, for example) I'm pretty sure it was this one...leave it to Amazon to still have it.

I recall recompiling kernel because it was "so much faster" (I cringe at myself now for thinking that - it probably wasn't even true on my Pentium 133 machines). I also remember spending time trying to get X-windows configured, but I was successful. I think I was using fvwm95 window manager, a Windows-like experience. I started using Linux essentially full time pretty quickly.

A few times I got frustrated with Linux and tried to switch back to Windows, but the headaches of Windows always quickly drove me back to Linux. Linux is not perfect, but Windows is even worse.

[–] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I got a disk of suse Linux from a library book. I put it on my laptop and it worked-ish.

I didn't know what partitions were so I messed up my laptop pretty bad. But I learned more in that little bit than my undergrad degree.

[–] Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 8 months ago

I went to college in 93, and they ran a Unix mainframe with thin clients connected to it in the computer labs.

I didn’t really know much about any computers then, but I learned quick and had nerdy friends teach me a lot. Home computers ran DOS, but this fancy thing called Linux had entered the scene and nerds played with it.

I remember it being a bear. My comp sci roommate did most of the work, but he’d dole out mini projects to me to help him out. You had to edit text files with your exact hardware parameters or else it wouldn’t work. Like resolutions, refresh rates, IRQs, mouse shit, printer shit - it was maddening. And then you’d compile that all for hours. And it always failed. Many hardware things just weren’t ever going to work.

Eventually we got most things working and it was cool as beans. But it took weeks - seriously. We were able to act as a thin client to the mainframe and run programs right from our apartment instead of hauling ourselves to the computer lab. Interestingly, on Linux, that was the first time I had ever gotten a modem and a mouse working together. It was either/or before that.

It was both simultaneously horrific and fantastic at the same time. By the time windows 95 rolled out, the Unix mainframe seemed old and archaic. All the cool kids were playing Warcraft 2 and duke nukem 3D.

[–] fratermus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Was it mainly a hobbyist thing at the time

Yes, I'd say so. Lots of tech geeks were playing with it but no Normals. Getting audio running was not always pleasant....

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[–] yak@lmy.brx.io 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

If you weren't at a university it was generally a challenge to get hold of disks. Downloading at home took forever on a 28.8 or even 56k modem (ie. 56 kilobits per second).

Slackware and Redhat disk sets were the thing, in my experience. But generally that only gave you the compiled code, not the source (although there was an another set of disks with the source packages).

If you wanted to recompile stuff you had to download the right set of packages, and be prepared to handle version conflicts on your own (with mailing list and usenet support).

Recompiling the kernel with specific patches for graphics cards, sound cards, modems and other devices (I remember scanners in particular), or specific combinations of hardware was relatively common. "Use the source, Luke!" was a common admonition. Often times specific FAQ pages or howtos would be made available for software packages, including games.

XFree86 was very powerful on hardware it supported, but was very finnicky. See the other posts about the level of detail that had to be supplied to get combinations of graphics cards and monitors working without the appearance of magic smoke.

Running Linux was mostly a enthusiast/hobbyist/geek thing, for those who wanted to see what was possible, and those who wanted to tinker with something approaching Unix, and those who wanted to stretch the limits of what their hardware could do.

Many of those enthusiasts and hobbyists and geeks discovered that Linux could do far more than anyone previously had been prepared to admit or realise. They, and others like them, took it with them into progressively more significant, and valuable projects, and it began to take over the world.

[–] constantokra@lemmy.one 4 points 8 months ago

"mailing list and Usenet support". Yeah. If you've ever looked up some weird issues and the only thing that you can come up with is some Debian message group that looks like it was typed on a typewriter, is extremely difficult to follow the response chain, and is apparently from before Y2K... That's what it was like to run Linux back then.

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[–] HarriPotero@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

Slackware and Red Hat were the two distros in use in the mid 90s.

My local city used proper UNIX, and my university had ~~IRIXworkstations~~ SPARCstations and SunOS servers. We used Linux at my ISP to handle modem pools and web/mail/news servers. In the early 2000s we had Linux labs, and Linux clusters to work on.

Linux on the desktop was a bit painful. There were no modules. Kernels had to fit into main memory. So you'd roll your own kernel with just the drivers you needed. XFree86 was tricky to configure with timings for your CRT monitors. If done wrong, you could break your monitor.

I used FVWM2 and Enlightenment for many years. I miss Enlightenment.

[–] constantokra@lemmy.one 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

How wrong did you have to be to break your monitor? Because I'm positive I got it very wrong a whole lot of times and never managed that.

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[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

SGI workstations had the best GUI. That shit looked straight out of Hollywood

[–] andrewth09@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

If done wrong, you could break your monitor.

You mean your graphic drivers, right? not your actual hardware?

(edit: oh no)

[–] folekaule@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

No. The wrong timing parameters could definitively break your hardware.

[–] mrvictory1@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

I used Enlightenment on Arch Linux for a year, in 2020-21. The PC had 4G ram and an HDD, Enlightenment was blazing fast. I could type enlightenment_start to a tty and reach a Wayland desktop under a second with 250M ram used total. E is still alive and kicking.

[–] brunogron@feddit.nu 9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I miss enlightenment

Me too! Has E17 come out yet? 😆

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

that was the last time i contributed; i created a LCARS port and now there are hundreds of them everywhere.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

LCARS interface.... that is something I haven't seen in a loooooooong time

[–] mrvictory1@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Enlightenment is on version 26

[–] brunogron@feddit.nu 10 points 8 months ago

Guess you missed the joke that it was 13 years between E16 and E17 🙂

[–] reallyzen@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

E16 was better

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 47 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

Everything was harder back then - even when using Windows. But you had to be a real masochist to run Linux.

Computers were still quite new that most people had no real use for them beyond "work things". Only nerds really used them for anything else. "Do you have an email address" isn't a question you ask today.

"Kids these days" don't realize how easy they have it when it comes to just general comparability. There weren't a lot of standards yet and vendors had proprietary drivers and offered no support AT ALL for "lye nux". You had to do a ton of research and fiddling to figure out if there was any support for your specific version of a specific chip used by any peripheral you used. And then to discover that you had to patch your kernel to add a driver that somebody had bodged together. So now you were running your own fun custom-kernel so you could get full-duplex rather than simplex audio! But it works!

Like - lets say today you want to buy an external IDE drive controller to plug in some old drives to for backup. You to to Amazon, search "USB external IDE enclosure" and buy the cheapest one you find. It probably works unless it's defective. In '95 USB and Firewire were in their infancy so you would probably buy a serial or parallel port device. You would need to find whether Linux supported the specific version of the thing you wanted to buy, what tools there would be for it, etc. There was no standard "bulk storage device" driver that you could rely on or hope the vendor would implement. Even if you were an early adopter and got a USB or Firewire device it might have some "basic" functionality that works with OSS drivers but you couldn't use all of it.

Vendors back then also shipped their own software with things, not just drivers. It was always just the absolute worst crap that was buggy as shit. But it would do a lot of the heavy lifting in working with their device. Like any Creative Labs audio player you wanted to get working. Sure it used USB but it didn't just mount as storage device, you needed to use the worst GUI ever put before mankind to use it (under Windows). Under Linux you had to find a specific tool that would support pushing/pulling media from it. These days it would just mount as a drive automatically and you'd use standard desktop tools to interact with it.

Even with DOS/Windows you'd buy a game and as you came home from the store with it in a box wonder "will this work on my computer and how long will I need to mess with it?" I had to configure a specific CD-ROM driver to be used by DOS just to run Tie Fighter vs. X-Wing for example. Had a special boot floppy just for that game since that driver didn't work with literally anything else I had.

Hardware just generally didn't "auto configure". "Plug 'n Play" was still very much in its infancy and you often had to manually configure hardware and install special drivers just for a particular card or peripheral.

IRQ 7 DMA 220. I probably just triggered some folks. If you were setting up a "Sound Blaster or compatible" then you had to know what interrupt it used (7) and what address it was on on the direct-memory bus (220). And you hoped there wasn't a conflict with something else. If there was then there would be a DIP switch you could use to change the base memory address or IRQ from the default. But you were telling your software where to find the card.

USB was a f'ing game changer for peripherals. Serial and parallel ports were so slow and obnoxious to use. Before that there was no real way to "probe" the bus to discover what was there unless you knew exactly what you were looking for (there's no lsusb for serial ports). So you just guessed at the driver you need and "modprob foo" hoping it worked.

It's amazing what 20ish years of just developing standards has done.

If you want a taste of that world I highly recommend LGR on YouTube. He's mostly Windows focused but look for videos where he tries out "oddware" to see how often he has trouble getting things to work on period hardware using the vendor-supplied software even. Then multiply that by 100x for Linux. :-)

[–] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Even if you were an early adopter and got a USB or Firewire device it might have some "basic" functionality that works with OSS drivers but you couldn't use all of it.

Oh, like scanners still.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago

Scanners and printers are one area of computing that have always sucked the most relative to other things. They're better these days but they're still the one thing I expect to fail on a regular basis.

[–] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 8 months ago

I was reading your wall of text chomping at the bit to complain about IRQs and dip switches but you covered even that!

Oh wait, you didn't include having a math coprocessor daughter boards! I barely remember them but remember my dad building computers with them.

I kinda wish I was a teen when the first computer kits were coming out. And phone phreaking.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I wasn't that into computers at that point in my life, but it was definitely a time where "computers" was a hobby, in the same way that restoring old motorcycles was/is a hobby. Sure, you might take it out for a spin every now and again, but a lot more time is spent tinkering than simply using.

I'm constantly amazed by how much better the end-user experience is today, even just from 10 years ago. The installers are better, the pre-configured software and settings are more thoughtfully chosen, and now we're at the beginnings of meaningful Linux gaming for non-hobbyists.

We truly stand upon the shoulders of giants, and I look forward to the future.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 months ago

Gaming has been the biggest change in the last 10 years or so. Mostly thanks to Steam. It's easier to game on Linux these days than it is MacOS! It's crazy.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

LoL!!! IRQ 5 DMA 220 for me. Had to manually adjust the jumper on the sound card.

Fucking hell...

[–] Jesus_666@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Port 220.

IRQ 5, port 220h, DMA 1 was what I used for my SoundBlaster 2.

Later I used IRQ 5, port 220h, DMA 1, high DMA 5 for my SoundBlaster 16.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Do you think it's worth getting a Sound Blaster card today? I've read you can get better sound effects in game. Can't the on board audio chips do that now?

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[–] Adcott@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Loki distributed alpha centauri if I remember correctly? Awesome game. The windows version is actually easier to run on Linux than the original Linux release nowadays.

From my perspective, anything pre-ubuntu was a colossal ballache for a desktop system. I played around with suse, mandrake, etc prior to that but getting things working often felt like a chore.

[–] Blizzard@lemmy.zip 12 points 8 months ago

Not a veteran, but... During the 90s, while still in primary school, a friend of mine bought a Chip magazine with a CD attached and instructions inside the magazine how to install a mysterious thing called "Linux" from said CD. It was supposed to be something like Windows 95, but new, better and it had a Penguin on it, so we decided to try it.

We followed magazine's installation guide to the letter (or at least we thought so) until the installation stuck at error saying KERNEL PANIC!!! and wouldn't let us finish. We didn't understand English much back then, but we found the panicking kernel hilarious. Anyway, we figured it's been enough h4Ck!nG for that day and got back to playing Diablo 1.

[–] Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You have several long and comprehensive answers so please allow me to add an emotional one:

Fucking compile error in hour six of what you estimated to be a four hour compile job because of a mistake you made that you found within 5 seconds after the error!!

Fucking why doesn't this compilation start I can't find my mistake for hours?!

Where does this module come from?! What do you mean "root kit"? Learning was fun!

It all was fun! :)

[–] mrvictory1@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I recently tried to compile Crossover's Wine from source. I went through many compile errors, fixed dependency issues and started over etc. In the end I think I compiled vanilla Wine imstead of Crossover (there are different source tarballs) because O365 still refused to install lol.

[–] Thorry84@feddit.nl 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I started with Suse 5 when it came out, as something I was interested in fucking about with. I didn't have internet access at that time, but I did had a couple of books about it (the distro came with a book as well). It was a couple of CDs and a boot floppy disk (booting from CD wasn't really a thing).

I used it for years for software development and simple tasks like Word processing. Getting my printer working on the thing was a chore, as was basically anything. Especially without internet solving issues was sometimes simply impossible. My scanner simply didn't work. Getting the desktop environment to run was very hard, I struggled with it for a long time. And once I got it working properly, I got a new videocard and it broke the whole thing again.

The system was very painful to use, it was super cool, but almost nothing ever worked right. And trying to fix shit usually made it worse. But once you did get it working right, it was simply awesome. And the feeling of accomplishment was awesome after finally getting something right. For software development on the terminal it was pretty awesome though. Back then I did almost everything in text mode, as I was used to DOS before that. Going into Windows was something you did only sometimes with Windows 3.11 (and even 95) and I did the same in my Linux environment. The desktop environment used up a lot of memory and was pretty slow, so I preferred the console. It was only later booting into the desktop became the norm (around the Windows 98 era).

I used Suse till version 6.1 (still have that box). I bought version 7 (still have that box as well), but never really used it.

Back then I used Debian to create small internet routers for my friends. I got an old compact computer, put in a floppy with Debian, a couple of network cards and created small NAT boxes like that. This was before NAT routers were the norm, people just had internet on 1 machine, connected directly. But as computers became cheaper, a lot of folk had more than 1 computer in the home. With no real way to share the internet connection between the different computers. Microsoft created the Internet Connection Sharing feature, but that was pretty slow, disconnected often and ate resources on your "main" PC. So my little boxes worked great, I helped people setup a home network, connected my magic box to get every system online. Also helped them setup some port forwarding for the stuff they used.

Because I used Debian a lot, I switched over to Debian for my main rig when Suse 7 released. Used Potato, Woody, Sarge and Etch a lot. Switched around between Debian and Ubuntu in the Lenny and Squeeze era. Have been using Ubuntu ever since, never really had a reason to switch. Debian compared to Suse was so nice, I really liked the way Debian did things. It made a lot more sense for me in my head compared to Suse.

As I fucked around with computers a lot, I always had both Linux and DOS/Windows machines running and even had a couple of dual boot systems. For any kind of gaming DOS/Windows was required back then and I did love to game. I do think Windows 10 will be my last Microsoft OS, since Windows 11 absolutely sucks (use it at work, I hate it). Work stuff has become less and less of an issue to get stuff done on Linux just as well as on Windows. And gaming has come leaps and bounds due to the work on the Steamdeck.

So hope to fully ditch Microsoft in the near future, even though my first ever computer in 1984 ran Microsoft firmware with Microsoft Basic being the default user interface.

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[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The thing that sticks with me is video card support. Back then (before Nvidia, 3dfx, etc) you had VGA cards that had one of a number of chipsets on, but it would be paired with a video timing chip and a RAMDAC. Buying a card required knowing which combination of parts it used and which combinations had support in XFree86. Then writing the configuration required knowing the video timings supported by your monitor. Not just frequencies, but blanking periods and such like.

EDID solved that last problem.

[–] jqubed@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I remember a really smart, very nerdy family friend telling us about Linux around 1997/98 and this was the experience he described. It sounded interesting but also like a crazy amount of work.

[–] kbal@fedia.io 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There were some tools available to make it easy. For instance, to get a modeline that might work for your monitor just fill out this simple form.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Lol, I haven't thought about that site in a long, long time. Shocked it's still there, in all it's perl glory.

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[–] kbal@fedia.io 15 points 8 months ago

My linux experience:

1993 - Hey, there's a new Unix-like thing for the PC. You can check it out down at the university computer club.

1994 - Wow, I finally managed to get X running

1996 - It was somewhat normal for more nerdy software developers to run linux full-time on their desktop at work.

1998 - Linux was taking over servers to the point where you rarely saw Solaris, HP-UX, AIX around any more.

2002 - Everyone agreed that linux was pretty much ready to take over the desktop as well.

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