linuxmemes

Debian testing is complelty okay. If you want to have the most up to date security use apt to grab sid security updates. https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting

Huh? Install testing or sid?

The Debian way is to install stable then change your sources.list to either testing or unstable.

I call shenanigans.

edit: what version was Stable using before 11Jun? 'cause it's 115.12.0esr-1 right now.

when i see a debian user i see a future fedora user

These days I care a lot less that a package is outdated than I do it being unstable personally. If security concerns are getting patched and it is still doing what I want it to do, I couldn't care less about UI elements getting moved around just to make some PM happy.

I've been on Debian Testing for my own desktops for about 15 years now. Sometimes as a Frankendebian mixing in SID/unstable. Sometimes mainly unstable, but mostly just Testing.

It rarely breaks, but when it does, it's a learning opportunity. Stable for servers and other people's desktops. Maybe with backports. Flatpacks if this no other option.

You don't get 100% solid and 100% new. Ever. With anything.

I have been using unstable on desktop for at least 15 years. Every time a new stable was released that would cause a month of just staying off updates till things stabilized. Recently it's not even had that issue.

I've had to pin a package or two in that time, but unstable has been rock solid otherwise. I even run it on my server.

TL;DR

You want Debian stable with either back ports or containers. On desktop flatpak is your friend. Also do not add extra repos.

Honestly there is little reason to not use flatpak for web browsers. If you want packages from Fedora or other distros you can use Distrobox with podman as the back end.

OP when they try Debian and it's exactly what it advertises itself as:

Debian was always like this.

Debian Stable ± Flatpak gets best of both worlds

For me, the outdated packages in stable have actually gotten better over time, as DEs get closer to a place where I don't need any major updates to enjoy using them, Flatpaks become more readily available, and on a subjective level, I get less and less invested in current Linux news. Before Debian became my "forever distro", I'd hopped to it a few times, and often found myself wishing for a newer piece of software that wasn't in backports or flathub, or simply being bored with how stable it is, but that's been happening less and less. And I feel like Debian 12 in particular left me with software that I wouldn't mind being stuck with for two years.

I've gotten warnings to upgrade my browser with Debian's Firefox ESR, but they never affected a website's usability in a way that a newer version would fix, and they do provide security updates and new ESR series when they come out; even if you must have the newest Firefox, you can use the Flatpak.

Additionally, I'm currently on testing in order to get better support for my GPU, and each time I've tried to use it, it's worked for me for a longer time than the last as I get better at resolving or avoiding broken packages. If you do experience issues like the one you described, and can replicate them, and no one else has already reported them, you should report them to Debian's bug tracker. The whole point of Testing is to find and squash all the critical bugs before the next stable releases.

Debian is working as intended. You are wanting to use Ubuntu or Mint if you want more up to date packages.

Never had issues due to 'outdated' packages myself, but then again, I wasn't into the latest & greatest.

I mean, you're always free to choose something else instead of bitching.

Or there is OpenSuse Tumbleweed which is up to date, and stable...

You can install Firefox from Mozilla's own repository. It is a luxury to have in Debian a Mozilla repository to install Firefox.

Stable is for servers, unstable for desktop. It has worked for 20 years. I actually installed two further Debian workstations recently after trying and failing with Kubuntu. So .... no, I don't have this problem.

No idea why busybox is needed. Is this is your emergency boot environment like initramfs? Sometimes it's nice that Linux boots up and offers an environment to fix stuff while some modules are broken.

Ever considered LMDE? Best of both worlds if you ask me.

You are literally describing the idea of Debian. Yes, stable is old, but that is the whole purpose. You get (mostly) security updates only for a few years. No big updates, no surprises. Great for stuff like company PCs, servers, and other systems you want to just work™ with minimal admin work.

And testing is, well, for testing. Ironing out bugs and preparing the next stable. Although what you describes sounds more like unstable, the one where they explicitly say that they will break stuff to try out other stuff.

So, everything works as intended and advertised here. If you want a different approach to stability, I guess you will have to use a different distro, sorry.

I guess when you last tried it, it was at a time when a new stable came out, so testing was more or less equal to stable.

About the firefox: It ships Firefox ESR these days, meaning you get an older, less often updated tested firefox (with security updates, of course). Again, this is the whole point. Less updates, less admin work, more time to find and fix bugs. Remember the whole Quantum add-on mess, for example?

As others have said, you can install other versions of firefox (like the "normal" one) via flatpak, snap... nowadays. The same goes for other software, where you would need the newest and shiniest version sooner. I'm using debian on my work/uni laptop and a bunch of servers, and it works pretty well for me.

I'm considering moving to Debian Stable plus Flathub for graphical desktop packages like Firefox, it works well on the Steam Deck. SteamOS also provides Distrobox which helps in some cases.

Arch is where the cool kids put in the work these days. Their philosophy of downstream packages untouched results in fewer problems and easier maintenance. Why would anyone be a package maintainer for Debian? It's a thankless task, and hard

I use debian headless as a server never had any issues but then again pretty much any linux system is gonna be a decent server since everything is containerised now.