It is so annoying that lemmy.world politics community is only about US. Either make it not only-US or rename it to US politics.
this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2024
201 points (95.9% liked)
politics
18789 readers
2817 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Why is no one mentioning, that under the 14th amendment, there is literally no statement on whether or not its state or congress power. All it says is they just become ineligible when they committed the insurrection. The only power given to congress is, you can override it and allow them to run again. Supreme Court seems to ignore the entire wording, if they agree that trump committed the insurrection is factual, than he should be ineligible per the wording.
The wording is similar to criminal law rather than amendment, be a politician who decides to rebel or commit an insurrection than no more politics for you. This was also written to make sure no one in the confederacy to run in politics, and if that's the case than its also the case that trump cannot run, as its automatically applied.
No decision, keeping this pinned until we hear what the court decides.
I'm actually surprised by this hearing. I'm not surprised that the GOP judges are going along with it, but that the 3 liberal judges also seem to be on board. Of course, what they'd be saying by doing this is that the 14th amendment is essentially worthless and unenforceable. But that's the direction they seem to be going by the questioning even the liberal judges were giving.
The Supreme Court is going to allow Trump's Beer Hall Putsch: Zweiter Teil.
Wow, fascism is in its legal phase in America for sure. These judges are going to let him run, there is no actual penalty for insurrection. They guarantee a repeat of Jan 6 with this, may as well have a do over.
I have to shut this off, because it seems obvious where it is going.
All of them opposed oversight with regard to ethics for the SC, so nothing surprises me anymore.
Fucking Clarence Thomas isn't going to allow it because there isn't any real example of it being used back in the day.
Looks like Alito and Roberts agree.
Edit Sounds like Kavanaugh too.
Edit Looks like there's AT LEAST 5 votes to overturn Colorado.
Gotta kiss the ring. Loyalty above all else. It's sickening.
Yep. Thomas is, predictably, on the exact wrong side of this. As he is with every issue.
Jonathan Mitchell, one of Trump's attorneys, is currently trying to argue the whole "president isn't an officer" garbage.
Edit: Mitchell is giving a master class on how to split inconsequential hairs.
Edit 2: Kavanaugh and Gorsuch have been asking some surprisingly good (and pointed) questions of Mitchell that make me wonder what their actual positions will ultimately be.
Edit 3: KJB picking at Trump's legal team's arguments pretty effectively.
Edit 4: Trump's team is done for now. Now the real lawyers are up.
Edit 5: Thomas asking for examples of national candidates being disqualified at the state level.
Edit 6: Thomas is such a gas bag when he deigns to speak.
Edit 7: Roberts clearly signals that he wants to punt this to Congress.
Edit 8: Multiple justices questioning whether this is a state-level decision.
Edit 9: Roberts bringing up the possibility of retaliatory attempts to remove candidates if Trump is removed. Seems awfully specious, but it's more signaling that he really doesn't want to make a decision on this.
Edit 10: Conservatives on the court spent the last five minutes or so arguing from a position that if Trump is held to be an insurrectionist, anyone can be held to be an insurrectionist.
Edit 11: Honestly, I think Jason Murray (lawyer for Colorado) is doing an absolutely phenomenal job with some extremely hostile - and ridiculous - questioning.
Final edit: That's it for live-blogging this, I have shit to do. But applause for Murray, he's rocked it.
The most surprising thing to me, a non-lawyer, listening to this was that Mitchell (Trump's lawyer) was arguing Trump is ineligible to be president right now. But Congress could potentially vote to make Trump eligible to be president by voting to override the insurrectionist clause. So therefore Trump shouldn't be kept off the ballot now, because he could be made eligible later.
Murray (lawyer for Colorado) had a pretty good point on that later basically saying that any criminal conviction has the potential to be pardoned. That doesn't mean that we should act as if the conviction has no merit.
A Supreme Court justice making a slippery slope argument is wild to me.
Mitchell's "officer" hair splitting is ridiculous.
Roberts'(?) Questions about military officers defying the order of a president after he committed insurrection has nothing to do with this case, does it?
Edit: I'm coming around a bit on the Officer /officer of question. A lot of constitutional law is about stupidly precise questions about the language, and as we saw under Trump's presidency, the laws really aren't written robustly and there are tons of things that have been assumed to be obvious but don't hold up.
I don't think it does. Soldiers are already required to disobey illegal orders anyway.
That's a good point. Does that extend explicitly to orders from people not in their chain of command? There MUST be something in the UCMJ about it.
Under Murray's (Colorado's) argument that the insurrection disqualification is self enforcing and necessarily instant, that would mean Pence was the president until the Biden transition, wouldn't it?
No, Murray's argument wouldn't apply to someone already occupying the office. Unfortunately, once someone is actually holding the office, they can only be removed by impeachment.
I don't think I agree with that, and I did hear one of the male justices (I can't match names to voices) ask about it. Impeachment is provided as a means to remove someone from office, but nowhere does it say that it's the ONLY way to remove someone.
The Congressional angle I don't understand.
The 14th states that Congress can CLEAR a candidate who would otherwise be barred, but that still means he would be barred otherwise.
It's patently nonsensical. Not even Trump's own appointees seem to take that one seriously.
That's what he's telling Gorsuch right now, the disqualification exists now and can only be removed by Congress.
This is being live-streamed by MSNBC on YouTube here.
Edit: WaPo actually has a better one that shows who's talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULjkYY9xTMg
view more: next ›