this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024

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"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it" (midwest.social)

submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Edited for legibility

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 months ago (4 children)

i dont get it.. broad democratic support === fascism?

i always though facism was a much more specific construct.. ie a far-right, authoritarian, ultra-nationalistic political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

i dont get it… broad democratic support === fascism?

No, the logic is actually:

Israel == a fascist state

Democrats continue supporting Israel -> Democrats are supporting a fascist state

Saying 'we are an anti-fascist coalition' is in tension with that coalition supporting a fascist state.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That's what fascism is, yes. The point being made, I think, is that Democrats are claiming to be anti-fascist while also supporting a fascist government in Israel.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago

makes sense, thanks!

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It is. Trump equals actual fascism in its full terrifying form, which is why it is a big deal to defeat him even though the current alternative are largely uninspiring corporate-friendly goons
Biden has paused some weapons shipments because of Israel's war crimes, and is pushing to stop the killing; the Republicans are specifically the party that's trying to override him on that and make sure they get their weapons and encourage them to do more killing. That doesn't in any capacity excuse 8 months and counting of the Democrats funding and supporting Israel's crimes, generally speaking... but it does make it a little weird for someone who cares deeply about the Palestinian people to single out the Democrats as the problem that needs to be addressed, in order to help the Palestinians.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Oh get over yourself.

He paused one shipment, then a week later sent a shipment twice as big.

Such mental gymnastics to say when Trump does it it's actual fascism bit when Biden does it it's like not even really fascism, man, and... BuT tRuMp!!!@!@

We have 2 far right fascist parties in America. That simple.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Do they? I think the bigger issue is the geopolitical value of Israel as an ally.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

There being a reason for supporting a fascist state doesn't negate the fact that they are supporting a fascist state.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

This

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Russia and China wouldn’t be prolifically seeding ideas about abandoning Israel otherwise. Israel’s an indescribably useful platform for military campaigns.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

That's the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 125 points 6 months ago (13 children)

Literally all you post about is "don't vote Biden".

You always capitalise Russia, but then generalise "the west".

You never go against Trump or the Republicans. Always just "don't vote Democrats".

And weirdly you seem to try this "both sides" bullshit even when you do the rare comment about something other than "don't vote genocide Joe", like in this thread where you're talking about the Russo-Ukrainian war carefully without taking a side on the issue.

So, how would one recognise an actual Russian troll, btw? Like... they probably wouldn't admit to being one, would they?

[+] [email protected] -26 points 6 months ago (17 children)

in this thread where you’re talking about the Russo-Ukrainian war carefully without taking a side on the issue.

I think russia is in the wrong and deserves to lose, but I think Ukraine does not have the numbers to win on their own and I think the US knows this but is only really after hurting russia's economic ability to pursue their further imperial ambitions. Since russia has entered a wartime economy I don't think this is likely anymore and we are creating a situation where russia has no reason not to continue and a larger conflict with NATO is likely.

Does that help clarify?

Literally all you post about is “don’t vote Biden”.

Close: I post a lot of agitation for democrats to demand better from their party, and i've mocked the impulse to signal loyalty despite knowing what the democrats are doing is wrong, but I have never encouraged anyone not to vote. Democrats have no reason to address criticism if they are confident voters will turn out regardless, that's the impetus of my strategic agitation. I could be wrong and it could be misguided but I don't think it is.

You always capitalise[sic] Russia, but then generalise[sic] “the west”.

I don't know how to take this, considering it's a comment about proper capitalization that's filled with typos/misspellings. If i've ever failed to capitalize another country's name it isn't on purpose. Since you're more familiar with my comment history i'll let you point out which ones i've made that mistake in and I'll correct them as needed. I'll even de-capitalize russia if you want, i don't give a fuck.

So, how would one recognise[sic] an actual Russian troll, btw? Like… they probably wouldn’t admit to being one, would they?

I've repeatedly had this conversation with you, I don't feel it necessary to have it again. You can suspect me of being a troll if you want but since it's not possible for me to prove to you otherwise I don't think it's worthy of addressing. Mods can verify my IP address area if they feel its warranted. It's making me uncomfortable that i've attracted this much attention from you though, out of concern of being doxxed I'm thinking I should start using a VPN.

Please stop harassing me.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

You stop doing shit posts lying and misrepresenting things, and people stop giving you shit for them. Sound like a deal?

Such thin skin it's pretty cringe-worthy. For how much smack you talk.

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[+] [email protected] -9 points 6 months ago (7 children)

You always capitalise Russia, but then generalise “the west”.

...

You're supposed to capitalize the name of countries, and not geo-poltical regions...

Hell, by your logic since you capitalized trump and republicans it means you support them and not that you're fighting autocorrect to make a very very small point.

So, how would one recognise an actual Russian troll, btw? Like… they probably wouldn’t admit to being one, would they?

One thing people look for is an unfamiliarity with the convoluted rules of English. Like not knowing what gets capitalized...

But by 2024 most people have realized social media comments rarely have that much thought put into them. If say a good way is looking at where they spend their time. We know from a recent study (can't be bothered to Google it right now).

But it's safe to say people with nefarious reasons for posting wouldn't spend their time on one of the smallest social media platforms.

Like, just think about it rationally for a second. Why wouldn't they do it on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, TikTok, or somewhere else their audience would be tens or hundreds of millions? Why spend the same amount of effort where even if it takes off, your audience is like not going to exceed more than a few thousand at most?

I'm just fucking tired of people constantly accusing each other of being professional state actors.

It's something trump would do...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Look up. The point went right over your head.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Tired talking points.

"I know trump is bad, but democrats are worse!"

"Republicans at least show who they really are, democrats decieve their constituents!"

"I'm not for Russia, but Ukraine should just ceasefire, so there's no more bloodshed."

"I know genocide would be even worse under Republicans, but Genocide Joe should concede and let someone else run."

"Both sides are the same, so a vote for either side is a vote for the same thing."

[–] [email protected] 47 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah this account basically just flipped to constantly posting Israel war memes a month ago.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Along with quite a few others. Before that, it was all economy all the time

[+] [email protected] -47 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You specifically should know better.

[+] [email protected] 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (12 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

I have no idea if you are a shill or a genuine person. But, there are some behaviors that are bad things to do regardless of which you are:

Recasting your opponents’ views as other ones that make less sense and are easier to argue against, consistently, as a way of muddling the discourse, instead of being honest about what you’re saying and what you are disagreeing with and why, and just letting your point of view speak for itself whether or not I personally would agree with it

oh my fuck. this is gold. screenshot, archive.org, federate. put it on a tshirt. use it as a new isntance url.

[+] [email protected] -28 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Recasting your opponents’ views as other ones that make less sense and are easier to argue against, consistently, as a way of muddling the discourse, instead of being honest about what you’re saying and what you are disagreeing with and why, and just letting your point of view speak for itself whether or not I personally would agree with it Consistently posting a drumbeat of memes in support of your viewpoint (within that same dishonest framing)

I'm reflecting the bad-faith recasting I see in some other memes here, no more no less. I'm happy peacefully existing without creating any memes at all, but when I see a misrepresentation of my view in a dumb meme by a user that I'll leave nameless (they can't defend themselves here right now anyway), I feel an urgent need to lob that turd back at them. I think .world has successfully sheltered themselves from a world-view that challenges a particular self-image, a world-view I happen to share, and I feel an honest need to make my existence known.

At this point I don't care what the response is, but if my silly memes are enough to warrant suspicion of being a troll then fuck it. I find the very serious democratic pandering around here childish, so i'll continue matching it with my own childish representations.

But the message you’re sending doesn’t match the outcome you say you want. I think that’s why you are getting these maybe unfair accusations.

At this point I simply do not care. If the only thing that comes out of these memes is a string of activity in the modlog I'd consider that to be a point well-made.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Neither here nor there but if you add a black outline or shadow to white text it becomes a lot more readable. See how it kinda blurs with the background in the first panel? On Photoshop you can do this easily by selecting the text layers, right click, blending options.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Thanks, edited

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Wow I didn't even know you could replace a post's image like that

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago

I worry that post contents don't get archived somewhere, otherwise it might be tempting for someone to abuse the feature.

But otherwise I think it's nice!

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago (1 children)

broad democratic support

Meaning, of course:

Israel has bought off political leaders from both parties for decades.
Republican voters won't ever criticize their own team.
There is a MASSSSIVE push to turn the Dem party into the same shit show.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I think they meant broad Democratic support, referring to the party

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Even if that's what they meant, Dem voters don't want to fund a genocide.

But the leaders of both parties do.

Because they're paid to want that.

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S

And that's not even accounting for the other side of the money: American arms manufactures

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/reports/capitalizing-on-conflict/defense-contractors

The victims of genocide rarely have the cash to bribe US politicians

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

ITT:

The US supports israel because of bribes
The US supports Israel because it's an important military platform to launch from in the region

Which is more likely: Democrats are resisting cutting support for Israel because they're financing their political campaigns, OR, there are legitimate imperial reasons why Israel is an important strategic ally in the region.

Either way, democrats have decided it's worth turning a blind eye to a genocide that's happening with their material support.

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